[gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[conan]

Hi all,
	one thing i miss from my previous debian system was the long
description that one can acces with 'apt-cache show <package>'.

I know that gentoo is a system for connected people (this means broad
band in my country), this said, if you are online then you can go and
check the web page of the project or do a search trough the web.

But i miss the comfortability of checking some long descriptions at
home, without the need to resort to search the web for every package
that attracts my attention.

I used this method before to look for new apps in my system that i may
need and didn't know before.

The questions would be:
- why gentoo has decided that one line description is enough?
- it's possible to implement long descriptions? (i mean in the
  political decision to do so, i know is technically viable with some
  LONG_DESCRIPTION item in ebuilds)

-- 
Fernando Canizo - LUGMen: www.lugmen.org.ar - A8N: a8n.lugmen.org.ar
<sel> need help: my first packet to my provider gets lost :-(
<netgod> sel:  dont send the first one, start with #2
* netgod is kidding
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Jonas Geiregat]

conan@lugmen.org.ar wrote:

>The questions would be:
>- why gentoo has decided that one line description is enough?
>- it's possible to implement long descriptions? (i mean in the
>  political decision to do so, i know is technically viable with some
>  LONG_DESCRIPTION item in ebuilds)
>  
>
I think it's political correct to add this option to emerge,
technically I would use the package metadata.xml file which contains a 
less brief explenation on what's the package about.

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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:26:54 -0300 conan@lugmen.org.ar wrote:
| - why gentoo has decided that one line description is enough?

We don't.

| - it's possible to implement long descriptions? (i mean in the
|   political decision to do so, i know is technically viable with some
|   LONG_DESCRIPTION item in ebuilds)

Already there. Check metadata.xml. It supports long descriptions in
multiple languages.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Michael Crute]

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Or you could use http://packages.gentoo.org/ or
http://gentoo-portage.comboth of which tend to provide decent
information about the packages in
portage.

-Mike

On 8/23/05, Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:26:54 -0300 conan@lugmen.org.ar wrote:
> | - why gentoo has decided that one line description is enough?
> 
> We don't.
> 
> | - it's possible to implement long descriptions? (i mean in the
> | political decision to do so, i know is technically viable with some
> | LONG_DESCRIPTION item in ebuilds)
> 
> Already there. Check metadata.xml. It supports long descriptions in
> multiple languages.
> 
> --
> Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
> Mail : ciaranm at gentoo.org <http://gentoo.org>
> Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
________________________________
Michael E. Crute
Software Developer
SoftGroup Development Corporation

Linux, because reboots are for installing hardware.
"In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates?"

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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Matan Peled]

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Michael Crute wrote:
> Or you could use http://packages.gentoo.org/ or
> http://gentoo-portage.com both of which tend to provide decent
> information about the packages in portage.
> 
> -Mike

Well, first of all, top-posting sucks, especially in a thread which has already
begun as bottom-posting.

Second, the whole idea is to do this for non-connected systems. Meaning, a
solution not involving the Internet... =)

- --
[Name      ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled    ]
[Location  ]   ::  [Israel            ]
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encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Jonas Geiregat]

Matan Peled wrote:

>
>Well, first of all, top-posting sucks, especially in a thread which has already
>begun as bottom-posting.
>
>  
>
What are you talking about ?

>Second, the whole idea is to do this for non-connected systems. Meaning, a
>solution not involving the Internet... =)
>
>  
>
If you're refering to the fact that the person doesn't have an internet 
connection when he wants to view this information throught the emerge 
interface, then you're wrong. When you want to install or you're just 
searching for a package you're using the emerge interface , when you 
need more info you have to 1) open your browser 2) type in the url (if 
you're lucky you know the url or it's in your browsers cache) 3) search 
for the package on the website , while instead you could just do 
something like emerge --desc package. Now what's quicker and makes more 
sence ?
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Fernando Canizo]

El 24/ago/2005 a las 04:01 -0300, Jonas me decía:
> >Second, the whole idea is to do this for non-connected systems. Meaning, a
> >solution not involving the Internet... =)
> If you're refering to the fact that the person doesn't have an internet 
> connection when he wants to view this information throught the emerge 
> interface, then you're wrong. When you want to install or you're just 
> searching for a package you're using the emerge interface , when you 
> need more info you have to 1) open your browser 2) type in the url (if 
> you're lucky you know the url or it's in your browsers cache) 3) search 
> for the package on the website , while instead you could just do 
> something like emerge --desc package. Now what's quicker and makes more 
> sence ?

Exactly! That's what i'm refering to. It's not an issues of connection it's an
issue of lazyness! It's like: "-- hey what are you doing this weekend? -- don't
know, it's cold and raining, i think i'm gonna sit in my throne and check what's
new on 'app-vim' to improve my vimyness, if find something interesting i'll
check the package webpage."

For now i'm using 'questo':
=== script ====
#!/bin/bash
# lun may  2 20:57:24 ART 2005
# conan - GPLed
#
# script to check for apps on rainy sunday morning

BASE_DIR="/usr/portage/"

[ $# -ne 1 ] && echo "Uso: questo <category>" && exit 0

cd $BASE_DIR$1
for package in * ; do
	eix "^$paquete\$"
	echo "Looking for: $1/$paquete. ENTER to continue..."
	read
done
=== end script ====

Now i took sugestion from Ciaran to look in metadata.xml, i check a couple by
hand and see the 'longdesc' field but... with short descriptions! Now maybe i
just choose two with bad luck, but i got a feeling that gentoo maintainers
doesn't like to provide longdesc, although there is the posibility.

I was thinking of doing a little script that gives longdesc found in metadata to
confirm this, but since i don't know nothing about xml, think it gonna take a
little bit more that if there were already an application to check 'metadata.xml'
fields. 'emerge', 'equery' and 'eix' wich are the administration tools i use
everyday don't say nothing about this, i think all of them use de description
field in ebuilds. I wonder if somebody knows another app to do this?

If not, the idea of the script is more less this:
lslongdesc package|category|all

where:
- 'package' gives longdesc of package
- 'category' gives longdesc of all packages in category
- and 'all' gives them all flooding your screen with info you never gonna eat...
  but that is there.

It's so simple that i'm sure there must be an app (or compound of them) that
already do this.

-- 
Fernando Canizo - http://www.lugmen.org.ar/~conan/
Olmstead's Law:
	After all is said and done, a hell of a lot more is said than done.
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Michael Crute]

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First of all, sorry about top posting that's the way Gmail does it and you 
cant change the settings. 

Also if you are looking for a lazy man's way of getting a package 
description try `emerge -s packagename` and it prints out a lot of 
information as well as a short description of the package. I have never seen 
a long description such as those used to build Debian packages anywhere in 
portage and don't really think it would be useful anyhow. So try emerge -s 
and if you need more info go to the packae's website. That would be my 
advice. Oh, and emerge -s works off the metadata so you dint need an 
Internet connection.

-Mike. 

On 8/24/05, Fernando Canizo <conan@lugmen.org.ar> wrote:
> 
> El 24/ago/2005 a las 04:01 -0300, Jonas me decía:
> > >Second, the whole idea is to do this for non-connected systems. 
> Meaning, a
> > >solution not involving the Internet... =)
> > If you're refering to the fact that the person doesn't have an internet
> > connection when he wants to view this information throught the emerge
> > interface, then you're wrong. When you want to install or you're just
> > searching for a package you're using the emerge interface , when you
> > need more info you have to 1) open your browser 2) type in the url (if
> > you're lucky you know the url or it's in your browsers cache) 3) search
> > for the package on the website , while instead you could just do
> > something like emerge --desc package. Now what's quicker and makes more
> > sence ?
> 
> Exactly! That's what i'm refering to. It's not an issues of connection 
> it's an
> issue of lazyness! It's like: "-- hey what are you doing this weekend? -- 
> don't
> know, it's cold and raining, i think i'm gonna sit in my throne and check 
> what's
> new on 'app-vim' to improve my vimyness, if find something interesting 
> i'll
> check the package webpage."
> 
> For now i'm using 'questo':
> === script ====
> #!/bin/bash
> # lun may 2 20:57:24 ART 2005
> # conan - GPLed
> #
> # script to check for apps on rainy sunday morning
> 
> BASE_DIR="/usr/portage/"
> 
> [ $# -ne 1 ] && echo "Uso: questo <category>" && exit 0
> 
> cd $BASE_DIR$1
> for package in * ; do
> eix "^$paquete\$"
> echo "Looking for: $1/$paquete. ENTER to continue..."
> read
> done
> === end script ====
> 
> Now i took sugestion from Ciaran to look in metadata.xml, i check a couple 
> by
> hand and see the 'longdesc' field but... with short descriptions! Now 
> maybe i
> just choose two with bad luck, but i got a feeling that gentoo maintainers
> doesn't like to provide longdesc, although there is the posibility.
> 
> I was thinking of doing a little script that gives longdesc found in 
> metadata to
> confirm this, but since i don't know nothing about xml, think it gonna 
> take a
> little bit more that if there were already an application to check '
> metadata.xml'
> fields. 'emerge', 'equery' and 'eix' wich are the administration tools i 
> use
> everyday don't say nothing about this, i think all of them use de 
> description
> field in ebuilds. I wonder if somebody knows another app to do this?
> 
> If not, the idea of the script is more less this:
> lslongdesc package|category|all
> 
> where:
> - 'package' gives longdesc of package
> - 'category' gives longdesc of all packages in category
> - and 'all' gives them all flooding your screen with info you never gonna 
> eat...
> but that is there.
> 
> It's so simple that i'm sure there must be an app (or compound of them) 
> that
> already do this.
> 
> --
> Fernando Canizo - http://www.lugmen.org.ar/~conan/
> Olmstead's Law:
> After all is said and done, a hell of a lot more is said than done.
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 


-- 
________________________________
Michael E. Crute
Software Developer
SoftGroup Development Corporation

Linux, because reboots are for installing hardware.
"In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates?"

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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[David Morgan]

On 8/24/05, Michael Crute <mcrute@gmail.com> wrote:
> First of all, sorry about top posting that's the way Gmail does it and you
> cant change the settings. 
>  

S**t, look at this. I'm using gmail and not top posting.

Just how stupid are you that you can't move the cursor to the bottom
of the message?

> Also if you are looking for a lazy man's way of getting a package description try `emerge > -s packagename` and it prints out a lot of information as well as a short description of the > package. I have never seen a long description such as those used to build Debian  
> packages anywhere in portage and don't really think it would be useful anyhow. So try 
> emerge -s and if you need more info go to the packae's website. That would be my 
> advice. Oh, and emerge -s works off the metadata so you dint need an Internet 
> connection.

How completely pointless. The OP knows about emerge -s and he knows he
can look at the package's website.

Even worse, you're wrong. emerge -s doesn't look in metadata.xml, it
gets the information from the ebuild.

Dave

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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Michael Crute]

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Hey buddy go troll on somebody else's thread.

-Mike

On 8/24/05, David Morgan <david.morgan@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 8/24/05, Michael Crute <mcrute@gmail.com> wrote:
> > First of all, sorry about top posting that's the way Gmail does it and 
> you
> > cant change the settings.
> >
> 
> S**t, look at this. I'm using gmail and not top posting.
> 
> Just how stupid are you that you can't move the cursor to the bottom
> of the message?
> 
> > Also if you are looking for a lazy man's way of getting a package 
> description try `emerge > -s packagename` and it prints out a lot of 
> information as well as a short description of the > package. I have never 
> seen a long description such as those used to build Debian
> > packages anywhere in portage and don't really think it would be useful 
> anyhow. So try
> > emerge -s and if you need more info go to the packae's website. That 
> would be my
> > advice. Oh, and emerge -s works off the metadata so you dint need an 
> Internet
> > connection.
> 
> How completely pointless. The OP knows about emerge -s and he knows he
> can look at the package's website.
> 
> Even worse, you're wrong. emerge -s doesn't look in metadata.xml, it
> gets the information from the ebuild.
> 
> Dave
> 
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 


-- 
________________________________
Michael E. Crute
Software Developer
SoftGroup Development Corporation

Linux, because reboots are for installing hardware.
"In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates?"

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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[David Morgan]

On 10:39 Wed 24 Aug     , Michael Crute wrote:
> Hey buddy go troll on somebody else's thread.
> 
> -Mike

Seriously, just press the down key a few times before you start typing.

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Daniel da Veiga]

You know bud, read some rules, be polite.

"If you have nothing good to say, say NOTHING!".

Do you really THINK before replying? Have you added something to the
question? Care more about WHAT people write than WHERE is it written,
you'll be more happy. Comments like yours are good for old usenet
users, and pointless today.

On 8/24/05, David Morgan <david.morgan@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/24/05, Michael Crute <mcrute@gmail.com> wrote:
> > First of all, sorry about top posting that's the way Gmail does it and you
> > cant change the settings.
> >
> 
> S**t, look at this. I'm using gmail and not top posting.
> 
> Just how stupid are you that you can't move the cursor to the bottom
> of the message?
> 
> > Also if you are looking for a lazy man's way of getting a package description try `emerge > -s packagename` and it prints out a lot of information as well as a short description of the > package. I have never seen a long description such as those used to build Debian
> > packages anywhere in portage and don't really think it would be useful anyhow. So try
> > emerge -s and if you need more info go to the packae's website. That would be my
> > advice. Oh, and emerge -s works off the metadata so you dint need an Internet
> > connection.
> 
> How completely pointless. The OP knows about emerge -s and he knows he
> can look at the package's website.
> 
> Even worse, you're wrong. emerge -s doesn't look in metadata.xml, it
> gets the information from the ebuild.
> 
> Dave
> 

To the point, I never really had to read long descs provided at the
website to have a good glance on what the program is, the fact that
the desc showed in emerge -s is short doesn't make it less clear, in
fact, it has all that matters. People searching with emerge usually
KNOW what they're looking for.

On the other hand, it wouldn't hurt to have a long description of the
app somewhere available offline (like the universal CD, for example).
I'm pretty sure they can use the same system of the website to provide
this offline (but is it worth the trouble?).

-- 
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Jonas Geiregat]

Fernando Canizo wrote:

>El 24/ago/2005 a las 04:01 -0300, Jonas me decía:
>  
>
>>>Second, the whole idea is to do this for non-connected systems. Meaning, a
>>>solution not involving the Internet... =)
>>>      
>>>
>>If you're refering to the fact that the person doesn't have an internet 
>>connection when he wants to view this information throught the emerge 
>>interface, then you're wrong. When you want to install or you're just 
>>searching for a package you're using the emerge interface , when you 
>>need more info you have to 1) open your browser 2) type in the url (if 
>>you're lucky you know the url or it's in your browsers cache) 3) search 
>>for the package on the website , while instead you could just do 
>>something like emerge --desc package. Now what's quicker and makes more 
>>sence ?
>>    
>>
>
>Exactly! That's what i'm refering to. It's not an issues of connection it's an
>issue of lazyness! It's like: "-- hey what are you doing this weekend? -- don't
>know, it's cold and raining, i think i'm gonna sit in my throne and check what's
>new on 'app-vim' to improve my vimyness, if find something interesting i'll
>check the package webpage."
>
>  
>
What kind of a computer user are you ?
Really what a stupid remark , kinda foolish to say it's a bad idea to 
implement this feature just because there are other slower less direct 
methods for accomplishing a task !

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Jonas Geiregat]

Michael Crute wrote:

> First of all, sorry about top posting that's the way Gmail does it and 
> you cant change the settings.
>
> Also if you are looking for a lazy man's way of getting a package 
> description try `emerge -s packagename` and it prints out a lot of 
> information as well as a short description of the package. I have 
> never seen a long description such as those used to build Debian 
> packages anywhere in portage and don't really think it would be useful 
> anyhow. So try emerge -s and if you need more info go to the packae's 
> website. That would be my advice. Oh, and emerge -s works off the 
> metadata so you dint need an Internet connection.
>
Please stay on topic , that's for all of you !
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] very OT (was: why gentoo doesn't have long description?)

[Christoph Gysin]

Daniel da Veiga wrote:
> You know bud, read some rules, be polite.
> 
> "If you have nothing good to say, say NOTHING!".
> 
> Do you really THINK before replying? Have you added something to the
> question? Care more about WHAT people write than WHERE is it written,
> you'll be more happy. Comments like yours are good for old usenet
> users, and pointless today.

Please stop that. All of you.

- You shall not top-post.
- You shall not yell at people caught top-posting.
- You shall not yell at people yelling at people caught top-posting.
- ...

If you don't want to receive mail from certain people, have a look at 
/usr/portage/mail-filter. But do not flood the list with rants about other users...

Christoph
-- 
echo mailto: NOSPAM !#$.'<*>'|sed 's. ..'|tr "<*> !#:2" org@fr33z3
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[David Morgan]

On 11:57 Wed 24 Aug     , Daniel da Veiga wrote:
> You know bud, read some rules, be polite.
> 
> "If you have nothing good to say, say NOTHING!".
> 
> Do you really THINK before replying? Have you added something to the
> question? Care more about WHAT people write than WHERE is it written,
> you'll be more happy. Comments like yours are good for old usenet
> users, and pointless today.
> 

I told him how to stop top posting though. I also told him that some of
the information he had given was incorrect. I was just dumbfounded by
his stupidity, sorry.

> To the point, I never really had to read long descs provided at the
> website to have a good glance on what the program is, the fact that
> the desc showed in emerge -s is short doesn't make it less clear, in
> fact, it has all that matters. People searching with emerge usually
> KNOW what they're looking for.
> 

Some of them are better/clearer/more informative than others, but I
guess that that's a separate issue.

> On the other hand, it wouldn't hurt to have a long description of the
> app somewhere available offline (like the universal CD, for example).
> I'm pretty sure they can use the same system of the website to provide
> this offline (but is it worth the trouble?).
> 

The ones that are available are available 'offline' (i.e. in the portage
tree), as stated earlier in this thread. 

Dave

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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

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On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:57:09 -0300 Daniel da Veiga
<danieldaveiga@gmail.com> wrote:
| You know bud, read some rules, be polite.

There are many who consider top posting to be just about the rudest
thing you could possibly do on a mailing list. HTML email is worse, but
not by much.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Michael Crute]

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On 8/24/05, Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:57:09 -0300 Daniel da Veiga
> <danieldaveiga@gmail.com> wrote:
> | You know bud, read some rules, be polite.
> 
> There are many who consider top posting to be just about the rudest
> thing you could possibly do on a mailing list. HTML email is worse, but
> not by much.
> 
> --
> Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
> Mail : ciaranm at gentoo.org <http://gentoo.org>
> Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm
> 
> 
> 
> 
<off_topic>
Right... guess this is my cue to shamefacedly tuck my tail between my legs 
and go have a nice tasty crow sandwich. Sorry guys, I will be more polite 
next time.
</off_topic>

Also to clarify when I said metadata I was (mistakenly) talking about the 
"metadata" in the ebuilds. Again, my mistake.

-Mike

-- 
________________________________
Michael E. Crute
Software Developer
SoftGroup Development Corporation

Linux, because reboots are for installing hardware.
"In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates?"

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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Matan Peled]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Michael Crute wrote:
>> On 8/24/05, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:57:09 -0300 Daniel da Veiga
>> <danieldaveiga@gmail.com <mailto:danieldaveiga@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> You know bud, read some rules, be polite.
>> There are many who consider top posting to be just about the rudest
>> thing you could possibly do on a mailing list. HTML email is worse, but
>> not by much.

> <off_topic>
> Right... guess this is my cue to shamefacedly tuck my tail between my
> legs and go have a nice tasty crow sandwich. Sorry guys, I will be more
> polite next time.
> </off_topic>
> 
> Also to clarify when I said metadata I was (mistakenly) talking about
> the "metadata" in the ebuilds. Again, my mistake.

Ah, how ironic... Of course any reply to that message _HAD_ to be an HTML email
(and a screwy one at that, with really weird quoting...)

- --
[Name      ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled    ]
[Location  ]   ::  [Israel            ]
[Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5        ]
[Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDDK+EA7Qvptb0LKURAt7XAJ4/cyJjmJbntB7GetIcJjaBk8ueJACggG8R
e+UJU0SKphcCU6t6MkzJ9nA=
=tnzR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Michael Crute]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2650 bytes --]

On 8/24/05, Matan Peled <chaosite@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Michael Crute wrote:
> >> On 8/24/05, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:57:09 -0300 Daniel da Veiga
> >> < danieldaveiga@gmail.com <mailto:danieldaveiga@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>> You know bud, read some rules, be polite.
> >> There are many who consider top posting to be just about the rudest 
> >> thing you could possibly do on a mailing list. HTML email is worse, but
> >> not by much.
> 
> > <off_topic>
> > Right... guess this is my cue to shamefacedly tuck my tail between my
> > legs and go have a nice tasty crow sandwich. Sorry guys, I will be more
> > polite next time.
> > </off_topic>
> >
> > Also to clarify when I said metadata I was (mistakenly) talking about
> > the "metadata" in the ebuilds. Again, my mistake. 
> 
> Ah, how ironic... Of course any reply to that message _HAD_ to be an HTML 
> email
> (and a screwy one at that, with really weird quoting...)
> 
> - --
> [Name ] :: [Matan I. Peled ]
> [Location ] :: [Israel ]
> [Public Key] :: [0xD6F42CA5 ]
> [Keyserver ] :: [keyserver.kjsl.com <http://keyserver.kjsl.com>]
> encrypted/signed plain text preferred
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- 
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFDDK+EA7Qvptb0LKURAt7XAJ4/cyJjmJbntB7GetIcJjaBk8ueJACggG8R
> e+UJU0SKphcCU6t6MkzJ9nA=
> =tnzR
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 
Sigh... no indeed I did not use HTML with any kind of funky quoting. The 
message is encoded as multipart/alternative. There is a plain text section 
and an HTML section. Configure your email client properly to read whichever 
you want. It's the way Gmail does it, I use Gmail, I am not going to turn 
off all the features in Gmail to appease the gods that be on this list so 
just lay off or go yell at the dozens of other people that commit these 
"heinous" crimes every day on this list.

For the love of Pete people stop hijacking threads to flame people. If you 
don't like what someone is doing tell them personally (or better yet ignore 
them), no need to reply to the list with your personal gripes.

------=_Part_2740_31876174.1124903688568
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline


-Mike

-- 
________________________________
Michael E. Crute
Software Developer
SoftGroup Development Corporation

Linux, because reboots are for installing hardware.
"In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates?"

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[gentoo-user] Re: why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Moshe Kaminsky]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2768 bytes --]

* Fernando Canizo <conan@lugmen.org.ar> [24/08/05 14:07]:
> 
> El 24/ago/2005 a las 04:01 -0300, Jonas me decía:
> > >Second, the whole idea is to do this for non-connected systems. Meaning, a
> > >solution not involving the Internet... =)
> > If you're refering to the fact that the person doesn't have an internet 
> > connection when he wants to view this information throught the emerge 
> > interface, then you're wrong. When you want to install or you're just 
> > searching for a package you're using the emerge interface , when you 
> > need more info you have to 1) open your browser 2) type in the url (if 
> > you're lucky you know the url or it's in your browsers cache) 3) search 
> > for the package on the website , while instead you could just do 
> > something like emerge --desc package. Now what's quicker and makes more 
> > sence ?
> 
> Exactly! That's what i'm refering to. It's not an issues of connection it's an
> issue of lazyness! It's like: "-- hey what are you doing this weekend? -- don't
> know, it's cold and raining, i think i'm gonna sit in my throne and check what's
> new on 'app-vim' to improve my vimyness, if find something interesting i'll
> check the package webpage."
> 
> For now i'm using 'questo':
> === script ====
> #!/bin/bash
> # lun may  2 20:57:24 ART 2005
> # conan - GPLed
> #
> # script to check for apps on rainy sunday morning
> 
> BASE_DIR="/usr/portage/"
> 
> [ $# -ne 1 ] && echo "Uso: questo <category>" && exit 0
> 
> cd $BASE_DIR$1
> for package in * ; do
> 	eix "^$paquete\$"
> 	echo "Looking for: $1/$paquete. ENTER to continue..."
> 	read
> done
> === end script ====
> 
> Now i took sugestion from Ciaran to look in metadata.xml, i check a couple by
> hand and see the 'longdesc' field but... with short descriptions! Now maybe i
> just choose two with bad luck, but i got a feeling that gentoo maintainers
> doesn't like to provide longdesc, although there is the posibility.
> 
> I was thinking of doing a little script that gives longdesc found in metadata to
> confirm this, but since i don't know nothing about xml, think it gonna take a
> little bit more that if there were already an application to check 
> 'metadata.xml'

If you have the XML::Simple perl module (which can be emerged as 
XML-Simple), you can do

perl -MXML::Simple -le 'print XMLin(shift)->{"longdescription"}' <file>

where <file> is the metadata.xml file.

However, it appears that this field is not widely supported. Instead, 
you might use something like

lynx -dump -nolist `esearch -o %h <package>`

to dump the homepage of the package as text (of course, you still need 
to be online for that)

Moshe

PS. Sorry if this actually seems on-topic :)


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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Jonathan Nichols]

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:57:09 -0300 Daniel da Veiga
> <danieldaveiga@gmail.com> wrote:
> | You know bud, read some rules, be polite.
> 
> There are many who consider top posting to be just about the rudest
> thing you could possibly do on a mailing list. HTML email is worse, but
> not by much.
> 

It's too bad that even *gmail*, the paragon of geek email, encourages 
top posting. :(

And it's also the default setting in Thunderbird. I wish they'd change that.
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Holly Bostick]

Jonathan Nichols schreef:
> 
> And it's also the default setting in Thunderbird. I wish they'd change
> that.

Oh, for Pete's sake, you can change that in your Preferences in 5 seconds.

Edit=>Account Preferences=> Compostion and Addressing=>Check the box
that says "If I respond, quote the original text automatically" (or
uncheck it to solve the entire issue), and then use the dropdown menu to
change "start my response above the quoted text" to "start my response
below the quoted text". I mean, the only reason it's the "default" is
because the word "above" is alphabetically above the word "below" so the
"above" option appears first in the list.

While you're in the prefs, you might want to uncheck "Compose messages
in HTML format" (on the same dialog) as well.

Defaults are just that; default selections that the user can change if
desired. They're not set in stone ('default' in this context implies
that other choices exist and are available, as opposed to hard-coding,
which can't be changed by the user, so are not 'default' settings but
'fixed' settings).

Sorry to go OT again, but I just couldn't let that pass.

Holly
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Anthony E. Caudel]

Jonathan Nichols wrote:

> Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:57:09 -0300 Daniel da Veiga
>> <danieldaveiga@gmail.com> wrote:
>> | You know bud, read some rules, be polite.
>>
>> There are many who consider top posting to be just about the rudest
>> thing you could possibly do on a mailing list. HTML email is worse, but
>> not by much.
>>
>
> It's too bad that even *gmail*, the paragon of geek email, encourages
> top posting. :(
>
> And it's also the default setting in Thunderbird. I wish they'd change
> that.

As a matter of curiosity, why is top posting considered bad form.  I'm
using Thunderbird and when it views the mail, by default it is at the
top.  With bottom posting, I have to scroll down to view the post.

-- 
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin

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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Wednesday 24 August 2005 23:14, Anthony E. Caudel wrote:

> As a matter of curiosity, why is top posting considered bad form.  I'm
> using Thunderbird and when it views the mail, by default it is at the
> top.  With bottom posting, I have to scroll down to view the post.


because, if you quote, then there is context. If you bottom-quote, I have to 
scroll down, read the quoted part, scroll up to read your message. Than, 
scroll down again, if something is hidden below your quoted block.

You see how moronic that is?

If you see a written question, do you write your aswer above?


plus: the majority considers this as bad, that should be enough to quit it 
without making a fuss. Or you annoy the majority of potential helpfull users, 
even before they read your complete message.
-- 
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RE: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Dave Nebinger]

> As a matter of curiosity, why is top posting considered bad form.  I'm
> using Thunderbird and when it views the mail, by default it is at the
> top.  With bottom posting, I have to scroll down to view the post.

Because we don't read from bottom up, we read from top down.  For example,
this comment by itself makes no sense (are we talking about how we read,
etc.).  The context of the previous post is needed to understand the context
of the reply.

Top posting means that you, as a reader, will need to scroll back and forth
in order to understand what the context of the original post and the reply
are.

And things get even worse if you top post a reply that deals with part (but
not all) of the original post; contextually it is sometimes difficult to
determine which part of the original post the reply is intended for.  This
is why many of us will embed replies within the originally quoted text to
ensure that the context of both the original post and the response are
clear.



-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 557 bytes --]

A. Top posting!

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:14:08 -0500 "Anthony E. Caudel"
<acaudel@gt.rr.com> wrote:
| As a matter of curiosity, why is top posting considered bad form.  I'm
| using Thunderbird and when it views the mail, by default it is at the
| top.  With bottom posting, I have to scroll down to view the post.

Q. What is the most annoying thing you can do on mailing lists?

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Shell tools, Fluxbox, Cron)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm


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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Jerry McBride]

On Wednesday 24 August 2005 09:14 pm, Anthony E. Caudel wrote:
> Jonathan Nichols wrote:
> > Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> >> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:57:09 -0300 Daniel da Veiga
> >>
> >> <danieldaveiga@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> | You know bud, read some rules, be polite.
> >>
> >> There are many who consider top posting to be just about the rudest
> >> thing you could possibly do on a mailing list. HTML email is worse, but
> >> not by much.
> >
> > It's too bad that even *gmail*, the paragon of geek email, encourages
> > top posting. :(
> >
> > And it's also the default setting in Thunderbird. I wish they'd change
> > that.
>
> As a matter of curiosity, why is top posting considered bad form.  I'm
> using Thunderbird and when it views the mail, by default it is at the
> top.  With bottom posting, I have to scroll down to view the post.
>

I with you, brother...


For me, top posting keeps me from having to wade through the entire message to 
get to the "new response" of the OP. 

I think most "linux nerds" (me included) distain top posting because it's the 
default setting of some email app that runs on the windows OS....


Jerry





-- 

******************************************************************************
                     Registered Linux User Number 185956
              FSF Associate Member number 2340 since 05/20/2004
             Join me in chat at #linux-users on irc.freenode.net
    Buy an Xbox for $149.00, run linux on it and Microsoft loses $150.00!
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[David Morgan]

On 21:45 Wed 24 Aug     , Jerry McBride wrote:
> For me, top posting keeps me from having to wade through the entire message to 
Well that wouldn't be a problem if people only quoted the bits of the
email that were relevant to their reply. Apparently trimming the other
bits is beyond most people though *shrug*

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Jonathan Nichols]

Holly Bostick wrote:
> Jonathan Nichols schreef:
> 
>>And it's also the default setting in Thunderbird. I wish they'd change
>>that.
> 
> 
> Oh, for Pete's sake, you can change that in your Preferences in 5 seconds.
> 

Uuuh Holly, I'm quite aware of that. It's one of the very first things 
that I change.

*Other users* are obviously *not* aware of it, and unfortunately, it's 
the default. Since many many many end users leave applications at their 
default settings, they top post. :P


-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Jonathan Nichols]

> For me, top posting keeps me from having to wade through the entire message to 
> get to the "new response" of the OP. 
> 
> I think most "linux nerds" (me included) distain top posting because it's the 
> default setting of some email app that runs on the windows OS....
> 

It's also the default for Gmail and Thunderbird, as I mentioned before. 
Fortunately, Thunderbird lets you change it. Holly posted a nice little 
how-to as well.. ;)

The biggest problem that I run into is more often than not, the top 
posting types leave the *entire email conversation* below their reply. 
They don't trim it. They end up causing *more* scrolling to get to the 
issue at hand. That's bad.

I remember the days of "netiquette." I guess I'm a grizzled old Usenet 
hippie. :|
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Anthony E. Caudel]

Jerry McBride wrote:
> On Wednesday 24 August 2005 09:14 pm, Anthony E. Caudel wrote:
> 
>>Jonathan Nichols wrote:
>>
>>>Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:57:09 -0300 Daniel da Veiga
>>>>
>>>><danieldaveiga@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>| You know bud, read some rules, be polite.
>>>>
>>>>There are many who consider top posting to be just about the rudest
>>>>thing you could possibly do on a mailing list. HTML email is worse, but
>>>>not by much.
>>>
>>>It's too bad that even *gmail*, the paragon of geek email, encourages
>>>top posting. :(
>>>
>>>And it's also the default setting in Thunderbird. I wish they'd change
>>>that.
>>
>>As a matter of curiosity, why is top posting considered bad form.  I'm
>>using Thunderbird and when it views the mail, by default it is at the
>>top.  With bottom posting, I have to scroll down to view the post.
>>
> 
> 
> I with you, brother...
> 
> 
> For me, top posting keeps me from having to wade through the entire message to 
> get to the "new response" of the OP. 
> 
> I think most "linux nerds" (me included) distain top posting because it's the 
> default setting of some email app that runs on the windows OS....
> 
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
Yes.  However, I understand Hemmann and Nebinger's points.  Makes sense
in a way.  But I don't usually start reading at the top.  I usually will
have already read previous comments and I just want to get to the latest.

Too bad Thunderbird doesn't have a setting "Start_Read_At_Bottom" :-)

Tony

-- 
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Matt Nordhoff]

On 08/24/05 19:01, Anthony E. Caudel wrote:
> Yes.  However, I understand Hemmann and Nebinger's points.  Makes sense
> in a way.  But I don't usually start reading at the top.  I usually will
> have already read previous comments and I just want to get to the latest.
> 
> Too bad Thunderbird doesn't have a setting "Start_Read_At_Bottom" :-)
> 
> Tony

You could use the QuoteCollapse extension:

<URL:http://quotecollapse.mozdev.org/>

I think there also may be an extension that does just that, but I can't 
say I have a link to one.

-- 
Replace the point in my email address with a period to reply. ;-)
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[A. Khattri]

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Jerry McBride wrote:

> I think most "linux nerds" (me included) distain top posting because it's the
> default setting of some email app that runs on the windows OS....

I know this post was a troll - but its the dumbest thing Ive ever read.


-- 

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[A. Khattri]

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Jonathan Nichols wrote:

> I remember the days of "netiquette." I guess I'm a grizzled old Usenet
> hippie. :|

No you're not - there's no excuse for not being polite and considerate of
others when posting. And that includes not top-posting and trimming your
quoted part to only what is necessary for context. Unfortunately most
people are too lazy to bother trimming anything so you end up with longer
and longer posts.

Some of us have to pay for bandwidth and longer posts just eat up more of
it than necessary.


-- 
Aj.
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Michael Crute]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1059 bytes --]

On 8/25/05, A. Khattri <ajai@bway.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> No you're not - there's no excuse for not being polite and considerate of
> others when posting. And that includes not top-posting and trimming your
> quoted part to only what is necessary for context. Unfortunately most
> people are too lazy to bother trimming anything so you end up with longer
> and longer posts.
> 
> Some of us have to pay for bandwidth and longer posts just eat up more of
> it than necessary.
> 
> 
Indeed, as previously stated I'm sorry. I simply didn't know that top 
posting and not trimming the message was so offensive. I cleaned up my act 
people just need to go harass the rest of the people on this list who are 
guilty of the same things. And for the record I was not trolling, I was 
TRYING to be helpful.

-Mike

-- 
________________________________
Michael E. Crute
Software Developer
SoftGroup Development Corporation

Linux, because reboots are for installing hardware.
"In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates?"

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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 362 bytes --]

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 11:39:14 -0400 (EDT), A. Khattri wrote:

> I know this post was a troll - but its the dumbest thing Ive ever read.

You know you've been on the internet too long when the trolls are no
longer amusing...


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Ralph's Observation - It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object
to realize that you are in a hurry.

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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Holly Bostick]

conan@lugmen.org.ar schreef:
> Hi all,
> 	one thing i miss from my previous debian system was the long
> description that one can acces with 'apt-cache show <package>'.
> 
<snip>
> The questions would be:
> - why gentoo has decided that one line description is enough?
> - it's possible to implement long descriptions? (i mean in the
>   political decision to do so, i know is technically viable with some
>   LONG_DESCRIPTION item in ebuilds)
> 

Just saw this on the Wiki (Portage utilities not in Portage), and
thought it might be something for you:

tsportageview (forums) (sample-html-output) (download)

    * Show descriptions of packages in a given portage category(-ies).
It may use <longdescription> from metadata.xml files. The output can be
coloured text (requires color package) or html with links towards
package homepages.

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-350215-highlight-tsportageview.html

Holly
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Nick Rout]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:57:31 +0200
Holly Bostick wrote:

> Just saw this on the Wiki (Portage utilities not in Portage), and
> thought it might be something for you:
> 
> tsportageview (forums) (sample-html-output) (download)
> 
>     * Show descriptions of packages in a given portage category(-ies).
> It may use <longdescription> from metadata.xml files. The output can be
> coloured text (requires color package) or html with links towards
> package homepages.
> 
> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-350215-highlight-tsportageview.html
> 
> Holly

YAAAA an on topic post in this thread!!!


-- 
Nick Rout <nick@rout.co.nz>

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[W.Kenworthy]

For me, bottom posting is not netiquette but a total pitta.  It wastes
time and effort in reading mail on the mail readers I use.  It was
originally used by the first text mode readers and seems to be mainly
inertia, continued by the design of mainly text based based readers
(pine/mutt and the like) for its continued use. With graphical readers
like evolution and outlook, who position their cursor at the start of a
message, its a real pain.  So unless a topic is really interesting, or
properly trimmed I solve the problem by "bottom post > /dev/null".

Of far more use is intelligent trimming.  Far too many people dont
correctly trim their mail which keeps both groups happy.  If it fits on
one screen, there's no reason both groups cant co-exist.

Lastly, top/bottom posting is a religion so you are unlikely to change
either groups opinion, but just cause angst.

flames > /dev/null

BillK


On Thu, 2005-08-25 at 11:42 -0400, A. Khattri wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Jonathan Nichols wrote:
> 
> > I remember the days of "netiquette." I guess I'm a grizzled old Usenet
> > hippie. :|
> 
> No you're not - there's no excuse for not being polite and considerate of
> others when posting. And that includes not top-posting and trimming your
...

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Marco Matthies]

W.Kenworthy wrote:
> Lastly, top/bottom posting is a religion so you are unlikely to change
> either groups opinion, but just cause angst.

[This is not meant as a flame, so please read this message to a 
lighthearted tune, sipping a glass of wine in the comfort of your 
favourite easy-chair :) -- and everyone else, please excuse this 
message's total offtopicness]

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

Yeah, that one's a classic, but I think it quite nicely illustrates the 
point. I agree with you that it is annoying to scroll through a whole 10 
pages of quoted e-mail conversation just to find the two-line answer 
hidden at the bottom, and that top-posting in this case would seem more 
pleasant. But I think this is an indication that the poster could not be 
bothered to actually quote the relevant passages that he is answering to 
instead of just unnecessarily leaving the whole conversation in, which 
other readers will have read previously anyway.

The purpose of a quote IMHO should be a short reminder to other readers 
which part of the conversation you are referring to in order to prevent 
misunderstandings, not a complete ISO-9000 compatible documentation of 
the whole thing. When people include everything, they actually make it 
harder to tell which part they are referring to.

So, I hope i haven't annoyed you too much with my ramblings. Maybe it's 
best to think about the whole issue under the aspect of better 
communication than some sort of holy "netiquette that must be strictly 
adhered to lest burning in the depths of nethell be avoided". I really 
do think that this is not a religious issue between textmode/graphical 
clients (i use thunderbird myself) but that there are actually rational 
arguments that can be made, and I hope you consider my post in this light.

Thanks,
Marco

Disclaimer in case anyone is going to call me on it:
Yes, I used to top-post myself till not so long ago (and also got 
annoyed when people got righteous about it), as e-mails on this list 
dating back a mere 3 months or more will illustrate...
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Fernando Canizo]

El 25/ago/2005 a las 20:57 -0300, Holly me decía:
> conan@lugmen.org.ar schreef:
> > Hi all,
> > 	one thing i miss from my previous debian system was the long
> > description that one can acces with 'apt-cache show <package>'.
> > 
> <snip>
> > The questions would be:
> > - why gentoo has decided that one line description is enough?
> > - it's possible to implement long descriptions? (i mean in the
> >   political decision to do so, i know is technically viable with some
> >   LONG_DESCRIPTION item in ebuilds)
> > 
> 
> Just saw this on the Wiki (Portage utilities not in Portage), and
> thought it might be something for you:
> 
> tsportageview (forums) (sample-html-output) (download)
> 
>     * Show descriptions of packages in a given portage category(-ies).
> It may use <longdescription> from metadata.xml files. The output can be
> coloured text (requires color package) or html with links towards
> package homepages.
> 
> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-350215-highlight-tsportageview.html

This is almost exactly what i'been looking for (well not so much
"looking" since i don't find it by myself ;)

Thank you for being on_topic.

-- 
Fernando Canizo - http://www.lugmen.org.ar/~conan/
snafu = Situation Normal All F%$*ed up
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[A. Khattri]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005, Marco Matthies wrote:

> I agree with you that it is annoying to scroll through a whole 10
> pages of quoted e-mail conversation just to find the two-line answer
> hidden at the bottom

The real problem is those people too lazy to trim their posts to just what
they are responding to... once upon a time people weren't so lazy and so
bottom posting was the logical choice (this post is a good example of how
posts should be done).


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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Billy Holmes]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> You know you've been on the internet too long when the trolls are no
> longer amusing...

well, regardless of the flames, they tend to regenerate...
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Daniel da Veiga]

I don't mind top-posting, I guess its not "offensive", ok, it
sometimes waste bandwidth, so does HTML and stuff like "my client
signature file" attached, I hate multipart, but, hey, you can't make
everyone think like you do.

I'll try trimming my mesgs to this list, even others, ok, and so far
I'm trying not to top post, but I consider MUCH MORE OFFENSE in
replying calling someone stupid,using  sarcasm and emails with no info
at all.

Its not a question of lazy or not, its automation, it increased or
bandwidth, decreased the time needed to reply a message and sincerely,
I'm writting this on my 15 minutes lunch break, no time for trimming,
bottom posting, get a client that deal with that...

[no flames please, this is MHO and I won't change it, sincerely]

-- 
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V-
PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Holly Bostick]

Daniel da Veiga schreef:
> I'm writting this on my 15 minutes lunch break, no time for trimming,
> bottom posting, get a client that deal with that...

Well, clearly not, but DAMN, Daniel, get a better job that gives you
more than 15 minutes for lunch. I mean, geez, a person needs at least
half an hour....!! How do you work through the afternoon with the
indigestion you must get from scarfing down your food that way-- after
all, one often has to have a bathroom break before or after eating, and
that takes at least 5 minutes, hopefully including walking/waiting time;
maybe you want to greet a friendly co-worker in the lunch-eating area (2
minutes); heaven forfend you have to call home to confirm plans/shopping
list/whatever (4 minutes).... the way I see it, you'd wind up with only
somewhere between 30 seconds and 3 minutes to actually ingest food and
drink.

.... But OK, I at least am willing to exempt you from any requirements
wrt to this issue. You have enough stress :) .

Holly
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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Martin Marcher]

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Freitag 26 August 2005 17:21, Holly Bostick:
> list/whatever (4 minutes).... the way I see it, you'd wind up with only
> somewhere between 30 seconds and 3 minutes to actually ingest food and
> drink.

and 3 minutes are so little you could skip the break anyways...

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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 587 bytes --]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:06:30 -0300, Daniel da Veiga wrote:

> Its not a question of lazy or not, its automation, it increased or
> bandwidth, decreased the time needed to reply a message and sincerely,
> I'm writting this on my 15 minutes lunch break, no time for trimming,
> bottom posting, get a client that deal with that...

The time you save on not pressing delete a few times, everyone else
wastes in trying to find the relevant information and context in your
mail. Or they don't bother and you don't get the answer you need to your
question.


-- 
Neil Bothwick


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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[A. Khattri]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005, Daniel da Veiga wrote:

> I don't mind top-posting, I guess its not "offensive", ok, it
> sometimes waste bandwidth, so does HTML and stuff like "my client
> signature file" attached, I hate multipart, but, hey, you can't make
> everyone think like you do.

So we should all drive on the wrong side of the road because, hey, not all
people think the same?? You have to have *some* consensus and rules
whatever you're doing.


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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Holly Bostick]

Jonas Geiregat schreef:
> Fernando Canizo wrote:
> 
>> El 25/ago/2005 a las 20:57 -0300, Holly me decía:
>>  
>>
>>> conan@lugmen.org.ar schreef:
>>>   
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>     one thing i miss from my previous debian system was the long
>>>> description that one can acces with 'apt-cache show <package>'.
>>>>     
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>   
>>> Just saw this on the Wiki (Portage utilities not in Portage), and
>>> thought it might be something for you:
>>>
>>> tsportageview (forums) (sample-html-output) (download)
>>>
>>>    * Show descriptions of packages in a given portage category(-ies).
>>> It may use <longdescription> from metadata.xml files. The output can be
>>> coloured text (requires color package) or html with links towards
>>> package homepages.
>>>
>>> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-350215-highlight-tsportageview.html
>>>   
>>
>>  
>>
> To point is should this be included in emerge or not ?

I don't personally need two extra lines of information; I usually find
the single line provided sufficiently clear to make a decision. If I
care enough to want to know more, I go to the website that is linked
with the description-- adding a couple of extra lines to a description
doesn't really make up for looking at the developer's ChangeLog, or the
status of the site (does development seem to be ongoing, or was the last
stable package created 4 years ago).

I don't see any need to say that this or some similar functionality
'should' be included in Portage (as if the lack of this functionality is
some serious lack in Portage), but if you do, submit an enhancement bug
and see what happens.

Holly

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Re: [gentoo-user] why gentoo doesn't have long description?

[Jonas Geiregat]

Fernando Canizo wrote:

>El 25/ago/2005 a las 20:57 -0300, Holly me decía:
>  
>
>>conan@lugmen.org.ar schreef:
>>    
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>	one thing i miss from my previous debian system was the long
>>>description that one can acces with 'apt-cache show <package>'.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>><snip>
>>    
>>
>>>The questions would be:
>>>- why gentoo has decided that one line description is enough?
>>>- it's possible to implement long descriptions? (i mean in the
>>>  political decision to do so, i know is technically viable with some
>>>  LONG_DESCRIPTION item in ebuilds)
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Just saw this on the Wiki (Portage utilities not in Portage), and
>>thought it might be something for you:
>>
>>tsportageview (forums) (sample-html-output) (download)
>>
>>    * Show descriptions of packages in a given portage category(-ies).
>>It may use <longdescription> from metadata.xml files. The output can be
>>coloured text (requires color package) or html with links towards
>>package homepages.
>>
>>http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-350215-highlight-tsportageview.html
>>    
>>
>
>This is almost exactly what i'been looking for (well not so much
>"looking" since i don't find it by myself ;)
>
>Thank you for being on_topic.
>
>  
>
To point is should this be included in emerge or not ?
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