[gentoo-user] any experience with wayland?

[gentoo-user] any experience with wayland?

[Jack]

I finally decided to give Wayland a try, but it hasn't gone very well.   
I started by enabling the wayland use flag in make.conf, and let emerge  
make all required updates.  I also added the gbm use flag, which only  
changed one or two packages,  Based on various wiki and forum posts,  
I'm using  "dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland" as the last line in  
.xinitrc, and launching with startx.

I have two monitors which run just fine at 1920x1080 in xorg.  Using  
wayland, the system seems to use only a single 1024x768 area in the  
upper left of the left monitor.  The mouse can move all over both  
monitors (small white x) but all apps are restricted to that  
constrained area.  There is no toolbar.  I have tried googling for  
wayland and various combinations of dual monitor and limited  
resolution, but haven't found anything at all relevant that isn't at  
least four or five years old.  I've looked through multiple wikis and  
forums, and not found anything helpful.

Any pointers to some docs I might have missed?  Any thoughts on whether  
this should be possible?  I've got an AMD GPU.  I realize there may be  
some applications that still won't play nice with Wayland, but I expect  
that the basic stuff (especially most KDE stuff, including kwin) should  
work.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Jack

Re: [gentoo-user] any experience with wayland?

[Franz Fellner]

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Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 18:35 Uhr schrieb Jack <
ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net>:

> Based on various wiki and forum posts,
> I'm using  "dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland" as the last line in
> .xinitrc, and launching with startx.
>

I stopped reading here.
Please think about that again, especially what wayland was meant to REPLACE!

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Re: [gentoo-user] any experience with wayland?

[Franz Fellner]

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P.S.: If you are on systemd just run 'dbus-launch startplasma-wayland'
directly after login on the terminal.
I don't know if there is an equivalent to .xinitrc that can launch other
important commands before the DE.

Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 18:38 Uhr schrieb Franz Fellner <
alpine.art.de@gmail.com>:

>
>
> Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 18:35 Uhr schrieb Jack <
> ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net>:
>
>> Based on various wiki and forum posts,
>> I'm using  "dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland" as the last line in
>> .xinitrc, and launching with startx.
>>
>
> I stopped reading here.
> Please think about that again, especially what wayland was meant to
> REPLACE!
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] any experience with wayland?

[Jack]

On 2020.01.09 11:38, Franz Fellner wrote:
> Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 18:35 Uhr schrieb Jack <
> ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net>:
> 
> > Based on various wiki and forum posts,
> > I'm using  "dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland" as the last line  
> in
> > .xinitrc, and launching with startx.
> >
> 
> I stopped reading here.
> Please think about that again, especially what wayland was meant to  
> REPLACE!
> 
So if you think that's wrong/outdated/inappropriate - please suggest an  
alternative.

I know the ultimate goal is for Wayland to replace xorg-server, but  
everything I have read so far indicates that currently it is really  
just the compositor, and in the case of KDE, that compositing is  
incorporated into kwin (launched as kwin_wayland instead of kwin_x11.)   
I have seen no instructions anywhere on how  to launch wayland totally  
independent of xorg.  As I said - I'll be happy to be pointed to any  
docs I seem to have missed.  I do agree that most of the instructions  
out there seem to be somewhat outdated, but I would expect to find  
SOMETHING up to date.

Re: [gentoo-user] any experience with wayland?

[Jack]

No systemd for me.  I use openrc, eudev, and elogind.   When I have  
chance I'll try that, although I think I already have, with the same  
result.  I don't use .xinitrc to start any other processes, just to set  
some environment variables, and those were set up so long ago, I  
wouldn't be surprised they are still necessary.

On 2020.01.09 12:03, Franz Fellner wrote:
> P.S.: If you are on systemd just run 'dbus-launch startplasma-wayland'
> directly after login on the terminal.
> I don't know if there is an equivalent to .xinitrc that can launch  
> other
> important commands before the DE.
> 
> Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 18:38 Uhr schrieb Franz Fellner <
> alpine.art.de@gmail.com>:
> 
> >
> >
> > Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 18:35 Uhr schrieb Jack <
> > ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net>:
> >
> >> Based on various wiki and forum posts,
> >> I'm using  "dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland" as the last line  
> in
> >> .xinitrc, and launching with startx.
> >>
> >
> > I stopped reading here.
> > Please think about that again, especially what wayland was meant to
> > REPLACE!
> >
> 

Re: [gentoo-user] any experience with wayland?

[Mick]

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On Thursday, 9 January 2020 17:19:18 GMT Jack wrote:
> On 2020.01.09 11:38, Franz Fellner wrote:
> > Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 18:35 Uhr schrieb Jack <
> > 
> > ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net>:
> > > Based on various wiki and forum posts,
> > > I'm using  "dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland" as the last line
> > 
> > in
> > 
> > > .xinitrc, and launching with startx.
> > 
> > I stopped reading here.
> > Please think about that again, especially what wayland was meant to
> > REPLACE!
> 
> So if you think that's wrong/outdated/inappropriate - please suggest an
> alternative.
> 
> I know the ultimate goal is for Wayland to replace xorg-server, but
> everything I have read so far indicates that currently it is really
> just the compositor, and in the case of KDE, that compositing is
> incorporated into kwin (launched as kwin_wayland instead of kwin_x11.)
> I have seen no instructions anywhere on how  to launch wayland totally
> independent of xorg.  As I said - I'll be happy to be pointed to any
> docs I seem to have missed.  I do agree that most of the instructions
> out there seem to be somewhat outdated, but I would expect to find
> SOMETHING up to date.

Perhaps as far back as 6 months ago I was able to run Plasma and Enlightenment 
desktops in Wayland, starting them from sddm DM.  A couple of months ago 
Wayland broke for me.  It tries to start, then drops me back into the login 
screen.  I haven't bothered to troubleshoot it, because the mechanism of 
providing me with a GUIfied desktop is less of an interest to me than being 
able to get a desktop in the first place.
-- 
Regards,

Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] any experience with wayland?

[Franz Fellner]

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Look here for some hints:
https://github.com/elogind/elogind/issues/61
Not everything should apply as you are using Gentoo, but I think there
might be a solution for you (pam configuration might be a first step).
Unfortunately I can't help with elogind as I'm using systemd and there I
have no issues with starting a wayland desktop.

Wayland won't work ON TOP OF X11. You can start X applications within
Wayland using XWayland (will be done automatically).
But trying to start wayland through startx will fail.

Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 19:31 Uhr schrieb Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com>:

> On Thursday, 9 January 2020 17:19:18 GMT Jack wrote:
> > On 2020.01.09 11:38, Franz Fellner wrote:
> > > Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 18:35 Uhr schrieb Jack <
> > >
> > > ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net>:
> > > > Based on various wiki and forum posts,
> > > > I'm using  "dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland" as the last line
> > >
> > > in
> > >
> > > > .xinitrc, and launching with startx.
> > >
> > > I stopped reading here.
> > > Please think about that again, especially what wayland was meant to
> > > REPLACE!
> >
> > So if you think that's wrong/outdated/inappropriate - please suggest an
> > alternative.
> >
> > I know the ultimate goal is for Wayland to replace xorg-server, but
> > everything I have read so far indicates that currently it is really
> > just the compositor, and in the case of KDE, that compositing is
> > incorporated into kwin (launched as kwin_wayland instead of kwin_x11.)
> > I have seen no instructions anywhere on how  to launch wayland totally
> > independent of xorg.  As I said - I'll be happy to be pointed to any
> > docs I seem to have missed.  I do agree that most of the instructions
> > out there seem to be somewhat outdated, but I would expect to find
> > SOMETHING up to date.
>
> Perhaps as far back as 6 months ago I was able to run Plasma and
> Enlightenment
> desktops in Wayland, starting them from sddm DM.  A couple of months ago
> Wayland broke for me.  It tries to start, then drops me back into the
> login
> screen.  I haven't bothered to troubleshoot it, because the mechanism of
> providing me with a GUIfied desktop is less of an interest to me than
> being
> able to get a desktop in the first place.
> --
> Regards,
>
> Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] any experience with wayland?

[Jack]

Thank you.  It turns out I had other cruft in the way that was forcing  
x11.  I cleaned up .xinitrc to just the env var settings and  
"dbus-launch startplasma-wayland" and launch by ". .xinitrc" with no  
startx involved.  Now instead of X I have Xwayland (still belongs to  
xorg-server package) and no x11 processes at all.  I still don't have a  
system tray so I'll have to hunt through console errors (there are a  
few) to see if I can resurrect it or if I need to just add a new one  
from scratch.


On 2020.01.09 12:03, Franz Fellner wrote:
> P.S.: If you are on systemd just run 'dbus-launch startplasma-wayland'
> directly after login on the terminal.
> I don't know if there is an equivalent to .xinitrc that can launch  
> other
> important commands before the DE.
> 
> Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 18:38 Uhr schrieb Franz Fellner <
> alpine.art.de@gmail.com>:
> 
> >
> >
> > Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 18:35 Uhr schrieb Jack <
> > ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net>:
> >
> >> Based on various wiki and forum posts,
> >> I'm using  "dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland" as the last line  
> in
> >> .xinitrc, and launching with startx.
> >>
> >
> > I stopped reading here.
> > Please think about that again, especially what wayland was meant to
> > REPLACE!
> >
> 

Re: [gentoo-user] any experience with wayland?

[Jack]

Thanks.  I think my underlying problem was that all the commands to  
launch wayland (variants on "dbus-launch startplasma-wayland") were all  
very close to the last line of .xinitrc when launching X, so I just  
made changes there, but stupidly didn't recognize that I needed to  
issue that line directly, not indirectly through startx.  Thanks for  
the necessary clue.  I obviously still have tuning to do, but I do have  
a functioning desktop.  (I also don't use any DM, and am happy I was  
able to get this working without needing to add that layer.)


On 2020.01.09 12:40, Franz Fellner wrote:
> Look here for some hints:
> https://github.com/elogind/elogind/issues/61
> Not everything should apply as you are using Gentoo, but I think there
> might be a solution for you (pam configuration might be a first step).
> Unfortunately I can't help with elogind as I'm using systemd and  
> there I
> have no issues with starting a wayland desktop.
> 
> Wayland won't work ON TOP OF X11. You can start X applications within
> Wayland using XWayland (will be done automatically).
> But trying to start wayland through startx will fail.
> 
> Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 19:31 Uhr schrieb Mick  
> <michaelkintzios@gmail.com>:
> 
> > On Thursday, 9 January 2020 17:19:18 GMT Jack wrote:
> > > On 2020.01.09 11:38, Franz Fellner wrote:
> > > > Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 18:35 Uhr schrieb Jack <
> > > >
> > > > ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net>:
> > > > > Based on various wiki and forum posts,
> > > > > I'm using  "dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland" as the last  
> line
> > > >
> > > > in
> > > >
> > > > > .xinitrc, and launching with startx.
> > > >
> > > > I stopped reading here.
> > > > Please think about that again, especially what wayland was  
> meant to
> > > > REPLACE!
> > >
> > > So if you think that's wrong/outdated/inappropriate - please  
> suggest an
> > > alternative.
> > >
> > > I know the ultimate goal is for Wayland to replace xorg-server,  
> but
> > > everything I have read so far indicates that currently it is  
> really
> > > just the compositor, and in the case of KDE, that compositing is
> > > incorporated into kwin (launched as kwin_wayland instead of  
> kwin_x11.)
> > > I have seen no instructions anywhere on how  to launch wayland  
> totally
> > > independent of xorg.  As I said - I'll be happy to be pointed to  
> any
> > > docs I seem to have missed.  I do agree that most of the  
> instructions
> > > out there seem to be somewhat outdated, but I would expect to find
> > > SOMETHING up to date.
> >
> > Perhaps as far back as 6 months ago I was able to run Plasma and
> > Enlightenment
> > desktops in Wayland, starting them from sddm DM.  A couple of  
> months ago
> > Wayland broke for me.  It tries to start, then drops me back into  
> the
> > login
> > screen.  I haven't bothered to troubleshoot it, because the  
> mechanism of
> > providing me with a GUIfied desktop is less of an interest to me  
> than
> > being
> > able to get a desktop in the first place.
> > --
> > Regards,
> >
> > Mick
> 

Re: [gentoo-user] any experience with wayland?

[Jack]

Top posting because the previous parts of the thread are not really  
relevant, except  perhaps for context of how I got here.  Short version  
is I initially had trouble launching plasma under wayland, but  
eventually figured out (got a clue) how to do so without invoking  
startx.  At the time, I only did so to test a few specific issues with  
one program.  Recently, I decided to give wayland another try.  In  
general, it seems pretty good (i.e., for me few noticeable differences  
from X) but I do have a few issues I'd love to resolve.

First, I have two monitors, and wayland persists in starting with them  
"backwards."  I use systemsettings5 display configuration and drag them  
to the right position, but I have to do so every time I start a new  
session.  (At some point, I'll just switch the cables to the two  
monitors, but I would think this setting would hold across sessions.   
Am I missing something, or is there a bug somewhere that it uses the  
default every session?

Next, I've had a few cases where I come back to my computer in the  
morning, and find it sitting at the command line.  I haven't noticed  
anything in any log files that looks suspicious to me.  I'm open to any  
suggestions on how to track down the cause if it happens again - but  
it's been over a week.

My current issue is that VirtualBox is segfaulting on startup, and I  
want to try it in X to see if that's the issue.  (In searching for that  
problem, I found a virtualbox bug that seemed to imply VB will  
eventually work with wayland, but not yet.)  The problem I'm having is  
that if I start Xorg, it does start, but with no background and no  
taskbar.  Gkrellm is running, presumably started as it was running when  
I exited the last session, xwin_wayland is running, as is plasma  
(didn't write down exactlly which binary).  I can run konsole with  
"konsole --display :0.0" from a different virtual terminal, and can  
launch programs from there (once I "export DISPLAY=:0.0) and at one  
point even got a taskbar to start (plasmashell, perhaps?).  However,  
it's clear stuff is still missing, as invoking "leave" either from the  
start menu or right clicking on the desktop has no effect, and the best  
way I've found to stop the session is to issue "killall xinit" from the  
other virtual terminal.

I start wayland with an alias for ". /home/jack/.winitrc 1>xwlog  
2>xwerr" and .winitrc sets some ENV vars, and ends with "dbus-launch  
--exit-with-session startplasma-wayland".  I start X with "startx  
1>xxlog 2>xxerr" and the last line of .xinitrc is "exec dbus-launch  
--sh-syntax --exit-with-session startplasma-x11".

Thanks for any pointers of where I need to dig deeper or what config  
file I've likely got messed up.

Jack

---------------------------------------------------
On 2020.01.09 12:57, Jack wrote:
> Thanks.  I think my underlying problem was that all the commands to  
> launch wayland (variants on "dbus-launch startplasma-wayland") were  
> all very close to the last line of .xinitrc when launching X, so I  
> just made changes there, but stupidly didn't recognize that I needed  
> to issue that line directly, not indirectly through startx.  Thanks  
> for the necessary clue.  I obviously still have tuning to do, but I  
> do have a functioning desktop.  (I also don't use any DM, and am  
> happy I was able to get this working without needing to add that  
> layer.)
> 
> 
> On 2020.01.09 12:40, Franz Fellner wrote:
>> Look here for some hints:
>> https://github.com/elogind/elogind/issues/61
>> Not everything should apply as you are using Gentoo, but I think  
>> there
>> might be a solution for you (pam configuration might be a first  
>> step).
>> Unfortunately I can't help with elogind as I'm using systemd and  
>> there I
>> have no issues with starting a wayland desktop.
>> 
>> Wayland won't work ON TOP OF X11. You can start X applications within
>> Wayland using XWayland (will be done automatically).
>> But trying to start wayland through startx will fail.
>> 
>> Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 19:31 Uhr schrieb Mick  
>> <michaelkintzios@gmail.com>:
>> 
>> > On Thursday, 9 January 2020 17:19:18 GMT Jack wrote:
>> > > On 2020.01.09 11:38, Franz Fellner wrote:
>> > > > Am Do., 9. Jan. 2020 um 18:35 Uhr schrieb Jack <
>> > > >
>> > > > ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net>:
>> > > > > Based on various wiki and forum posts,
>> > > > > I'm using  "dbus-run-session startplasma-wayland" as the  
>> last line
>> > > >
>> > > > in
>> > > >
>> > > > > .xinitrc, and launching with startx.
>> > > >
>> > > > I stopped reading here.
>> > > > Please think about that again, especially what wayland was  
>> meant to
>> > > > REPLACE!
>> > >
>> > > So if you think that's wrong/outdated/inappropriate - please  
>> suggest an
>> > > alternative.
>> > >
>> > > I know the ultimate goal is for Wayland to replace xorg-server,  
>> but
>> > > everything I have read so far indicates that currently it is  
>> really
>> > > just the compositor, and in the case of KDE, that compositing is
>> > > incorporated into kwin (launched as kwin_wayland instead of  
>> kwin_x11.)
>> > > I have seen no instructions anywhere on how  to launch wayland  
>> totally
>> > > independent of xorg.  As I said - I'll be happy to be pointed to  
>> any
>> > > docs I seem to have missed.  I do agree that most of the  
>> instructions
>> > > out there seem to be somewhat outdated, but I would expect to  
>> find
>> > > SOMETHING up to date.
>> >
>> > Perhaps as far back as 6 months ago I was able to run Plasma and
>> > Enlightenment
>> > desktops in Wayland, starting them from sddm DM.  A couple of  
>> months ago
>> > Wayland broke for me.  It tries to start, then drops me back into  
>> the
>> > login
>> > screen.  I haven't bothered to troubleshoot it, because the  
>> mechanism of
>> > providing me with a GUIfied desktop is less of an interest to me  
>> than
>> > being
>> > able to get a desktop in the first place.
>> > --
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Mick
>> 
> 
>