From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JWIw2-0000ZC-8E for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:15:02 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D28FEE0662; Mon, 3 Mar 2008 22:15:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from earth.karoo.kcom.com (earth.karoo.kcom.com [212.50.160.55]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F001E0662 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2008 22:15:00 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.25,440,1199664000"; d="scan'208";a="260924100" Received: from compaq.stroller.uk.eu.org ([213.152.39.90]) by earth.karoo.kcom.com with ESMTP; 03 Mar 2008 22:14:59 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.71] (funf.stroller.uk.eu.org [192.168.1.71]) by compaq.stroller.uk.eu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B7ECF69B4 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2008 22:14:54 +0000 (GMT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <200803031617.56981.shrdlu@unlimitedmail.org> References: <20080303060451.12984.qmail@vh0.comintec.net> <200803031057.44516.shrdlu@unlimitedmail.org> <4ABD5A80-50FB-43A0-965E-7E0A7D66241C@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> <200803031617.56981.shrdlu@unlimitedmail.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Stroller Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Digest of gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org issue 1422 (76278-76327) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 22:14:56 +0000 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Archives-Salt: 41bd588c-a90e-4ea6-baa7-ddf414af48d9 X-Archives-Hash: c1c4564a1a6a363fedb137952bde665b On 3 Mar 2008, at 15:17, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote: > On Monday 3 March 2008, Stroller wrote: >> On 3 Mar 2008, at 09:57, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote: >>> On Monday 3 March 2008, Jan Seeger wrote: >>>> NOTE: I don't speak spanish. But somehow, I read it thusly: >>>> On Mon, 03. Mar, mvidela@ases.com.ar spammed my inbox with >>>> >>>>> todos los temas relacionados con soporte t=E9cnico >>>> >>>> all technical support requests (relations?) >>> >>> all technical support-related issues >>> >>> Ok, not that it changes much... :-) >> >> Noooo! It changes EVERYTHING!! >> >> "Issue" is word to describe an individual periodical in a series of >> publications, and is a weasel-word when it's used as a synonym for >> "problem". > > Ok. Literally, the word "tema" (pl. temas) would mean "subject, theme, > topic, matter". The degree of "problematic-ness" intended by whoever > wrote "temas" can't of course be deduced, but only guessed. > In my interpretation, I took "todos los temas relacionados con soporte > t=E9cnico" as meaning "anything related to technical support", so = issue > seemed an acceptable translation (where "issues" include "problems" as > well, of course). Hi Etaoin, I didn't mean to be picky about your translation, so my apologies for =20= that. And thank you to Uwe for pointing that out - I didn't intend to =20= be taken that way, I just wanted to have a little rant about one of =20 my (least) favourite words. However you can also say in English "all matters relating to =20 technical support". >> Clearly if your computer isn't booting it's a PROBLEM, not merely an >> "issue", so we can tell that the author of the email is engaged in >> the sort of environment where weasel-words are employed. >> >> I have dealt with such technical support departments in the past - I >> knew of one at which the management insisted that staff were not >> allowed to describe a dead PC as a problem because that "sounds too >> downbeat". Such scenarios were to be passed off to the customer as >> merely "an issue" ("however seriously we're addressing your issue, >> sir"), rather than the disaster it actually was. >> >> > > Agreed. I know that kind of environment. > > So, are you saying that "issue" means "nuisance" or "minor problem" > rather than "real problem", and using the word to mean "problem" is > incorrect? Or you just hate it when they say "issue" when they really > should say "disaster" (in this case, I totally agree with you)? Issue kinda doesn't mean any of these things - neither "nuisance" nor =20= "minor problem" nor "real problem". It's a way of _avoiding_ saying =20 any of these things at all. The dictionary I have on this computer is the New Oxford American =20 one, and it basically says: issue, noun 1 an important topic for debate or discussion : the issue of =20 global warming | money is not an issue This dictionary goes on to observe the "he has issues" usage, but =20 really this is just the same (fairly recent) euphemism. The best way (IMO) to perceive the word "issue" is the global warming =20= one or the couple who are "going to marriage counselling because they =20= have issues (to talk about)". In the former case it's a matter of =20 public debate, in which everyone has a view and in which people are =20 entitled to opposite views; in the latter case there are likewise two =20= ways to see the situation and the solution will be found through =20 discussion and compromise. An "issue" is a two-way street, in which =20 opinions go both ways. The use of the word "issue" within technical support is wide, and so =20 you'd never lose marks for using it in a translation as you have; I =20 suppose I must admit that - with the evolution of language - the word =20= has perhaps become a synonym for "problem". But this usage is a bit =20 of co-optation - one doesn't like to admit one's software has =20 problems, so one uses the word "issue" instead. "Problem" sounds so =20 negative, an "issue" is just something to be worked through. As I say, my objection to this usage stems from one company whose =20 staff were prohibited from the use of the word "problem". But =20 technical support problems are frequently NOT a two-way street, and =20 they're not something for discussion & compromise the way your =20 spouse's habits might be. If I've bought software from you and it =20 crashes every time I press print it truly IS a problem, and use of =20 the word "issue" to describe this is, IMO, weasly. I hope this helps to explain this fairly obscure entomology. I don't =20 pretend to be a definitive source (I'm not a dictionary), and mine is =20= perhaps a bit of a minority opinion. But as a non-native speaker I =20 guess you may be interested in why I said what I did, so hopefully =20 this clarifies. Stroller. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list