[gentoo-user] Multiseat -- LTSP?

[gentoo-user] Multiseat -- LTSP?

[Grant]

I'd like to have multiple users working from separate monitors,
keyboards, and mice, but all connected to a single Gentoo computer.
The main purpose is to minimize sys admin duties but hardware and
power requirements would also be minimized.

Apparently this is called "multiseat" and native support in Xorg might
not be ready for primetime:

http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Development/Documentation/Multiseat
http://vignatti.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/multiseat-roadmap

There is a configuration tool for Xorg multiseat called MDM:

http://wiki.c3sl.ufpr.br/multiseat/index.php/Mdm

but from what I've read it isn't ideal.  Besides Xorg multiseat I've
read about LTSP and a few others:

http://www.ltsp.org
http://www.thinstation.org
http://automseat.sourceforge.net
http://www.openthinclient.org

There are also a lot of proprietary options.  Is LTSP the way to go?

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Multiseat -- LTSP?

[Mick]

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On Sunday 29 Jan 2012 05:26:28 Grant wrote:
> I'd like to have multiple users working from separate monitors,
> keyboards, and mice, but all connected to a single Gentoo computer.
> The main purpose is to minimize sys admin duties but hardware and
> power requirements would also be minimized.
> 
> Apparently this is called "multiseat" and native support in Xorg might
> not be ready for primetime:
> 
> http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Development/Documentation/Multiseat
> http://vignatti.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/multiseat-roadmap
> 
> There is a configuration tool for Xorg multiseat called MDM:
> 
> http://wiki.c3sl.ufpr.br/multiseat/index.php/Mdm
> 
> but from what I've read it isn't ideal.  Besides Xorg multiseat I've
> read about LTSP and a few others:
> 
> http://www.ltsp.org
> http://www.thinstation.org
> http://automseat.sourceforge.net
> http://www.openthinclient.org
> 
> There are also a lot of proprietary options.  Is LTSP the way to go?

It may be, but as with all thin client models you would need a terminal 
computer for each user.

If you only have one machine and monitors, keyboards and mice for each user 
then you'll need multiple video cards (and a strong power supply) for your 
only PC.  In this case something like http://automseat.sourceforge.net may be 
more appropriate.  However, I have not used anything like this set up to offer 
an opinion on performance.

At work we use thin clients running Debian to serve MSWindows server desktop 
and apps to users.  This setup uses the Citrix ica protocol, but I'm thinking 
that FreeNX coupled with VNC or relevant KDE or Gnome remote desktop 
implementation would probably work nicely and offer LAN and remote connection 
security at the same time.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Multiseat -- LTSP?

[Grant]

>> I'd like to have multiple users working from separate monitors,
>> keyboards, and mice, but all connected to a single Gentoo computer.
>> The main purpose is to minimize sys admin duties but hardware and
>> power requirements would also be minimized.
>>
>> Apparently this is called "multiseat" and native support in Xorg might
>> not be ready for primetime:
>>
>> http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Development/Documentation/Multiseat
>> http://vignatti.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/multiseat-roadmap
>>
>> There is a configuration tool for Xorg multiseat called MDM:
>>
>> http://wiki.c3sl.ufpr.br/multiseat/index.php/Mdm
>>
>> but from what I've read it isn't ideal.  Besides Xorg multiseat I've
>> read about LTSP and a few others:
>>
>> http://www.ltsp.org
>> http://www.thinstation.org
>> http://automseat.sourceforge.net
>> http://www.openthinclient.org
>>
>> There are also a lot of proprietary options.  Is LTSP the way to go?
>
> It may be, but as with all thin client models you would need a terminal
> computer for each user.
>
> If you only have one machine and monitors, keyboards and mice for each user
> then you'll need multiple video cards (and a strong power supply) for your
> only PC.  In this case something like http://automseat.sourceforge.net may be
> more appropriate.  However, I have not used anything like this set up to offer
> an opinion on performance.
>
> At work we use thin clients running Debian to serve MSWindows server desktop
> and apps to users.  This setup uses the Citrix ica protocol, but I'm thinking
> that FreeNX coupled with VNC or relevant KDE or Gnome remote desktop
> implementation would probably work nicely and offer LAN and remote connection
> security at the same time.
> --
> Regards,
> Mick

If I throw out installing a separate OS on a separate machine for each
workstation and all of the proprietary thin-client protocols, I think
I have 3 options:

1. Connect monitors, USB keyboards, and USB mice directly to a server
with multiple video cards.  I found a motherboard with 6 PCI-E slots:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128508

6 video cards could be installed for 6 workstations if the server goes
headless, and even more if multi-headed video cards are used.  Xorg
requires some special configuration for this but this discussion from
2010 sounds like it's something that is actually done:

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-836950-start-0.html

These guys got it working in 2006:

http://www.linuxgazette.net/124/smith.html

2. Set up a separate thin client for each workstation and run LTSP on
the server.  This seems inferior to #1 because it requires setting up
and maintaining the LTSP server and client configuration, NFS, xinetd,
tftp, dnsmasq, and PXE-boot.  Bandwidth would also be limited compared
to #1 and hardware and power requirements would be much greater.

3. Run a Plugable thin client for each workstation:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004PXPPNA

This likely requires running "Userful Multiseat Linux" on my server
which is only packaged up for Ubuntu.  The Plugable thin client
connects to the server via USB 2.0 which makes me wonder if it could
be made to work without Userful Multiseat Linux as a USB video card
and input devices, but I imagine drivers for the video card and
bandwidth over USB could be a problem.

I think #1 is the way to go but I'd love to hear anyone else's opinion
on that.  Has anyone here ever set up multiseat in Xorg?

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Multiseat -- LTSP?

[Helmut Jarausch]

I've been in the same situation a short time ago.
Finally I decided to buy a cheap notebook (ASUS AMD 1GHz, 8 Gb RAM)
for 265 Euro, only -- running Gentoo, of course.
I've installed a private wireless network.
So my wife can sit anywhere and she can still connect to our "family 
server" if she likes.

If I had to buy a monitor, graphics card, keyboard and a better
power supply, that would have beeen more expensive. 
Furthermore the notebook solution is more flexible.

Helmut.


On 01/30/2012 12:29:37 AM, Grant wrote:
> >> I'd like to have multiple users working from separate monitors,
> >> keyboards, and mice, but all connected to a single Gentoo 
> computer.
> >> The main purpose is to minimize sys admin duties but hardware and
> >> power requirements would also be minimized.
> >>
> >> Apparently this is called "multiseat" and native support in Xorg
> might
> >> not be ready for primetime:
> >>
> >> http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Development/Documentation/Multiseat
> >> http://vignatti.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/multiseat-roadmap
> >>
> >> There is a configuration tool for Xorg multiseat called MDM:
> >>
> >> http://wiki.c3sl.ufpr.br/multiseat/index.php/Mdm
> >>
> >> but from what I've read it isn't ideal.  Besides Xorg multiseat
> I've
> >> read about LTSP and a few others:
> >>
> >> http://www.ltsp.org
> >> http://www.thinstation.org
> >> http://automseat.sourceforge.net
> >> http://www.openthinclient.org
> >>
> >> There are also a lot of proprietary options.  Is LTSP the way to
> go?
> >
> > It may be, but as with all thin client models you would need a
> terminal
> > computer for each user.
> >
> > If you only have one machine and monitors, keyboards and mice for
> each user
> > then you'll need multiple video cards (and a strong power supply)
> for your
> > only PC.  In this case something like
> http://automseat.sourceforge.net may be
> > more appropriate.  However, I have not used anything like this set
> up to offer
> > an opinion on performance.
> >
> > At work we use thin clients running Debian to serve MSWindows 
> server
> desktop
> > and apps to users.  This setup uses the Citrix ica protocol, but 
> I'm
> thinking
> > that FreeNX coupled with VNC or relevant KDE or Gnome remote 
> desktop
> > implementation would probably work nicely and offer LAN and remote
> connection
> > security at the same time.
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Mick
> 
> If I throw out installing a separate OS on a separate machine for 
> each
> workstation and all of the proprietary thin-client protocols, I think
> I have 3 options:
> 
> 1. Connect monitors, USB keyboards, and USB mice directly to a server
> with multiple video cards.  I found a motherboard with 6 PCI-E slots:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128508
> 
> 6 video cards could be installed for 6 workstations if the server 
> goes
> headless, and even more if multi-headed video cards are used.  Xorg
> requires some special configuration for this but this discussion from
> 2010 sounds like it's something that is actually done:
> 
> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-836950-start-0.html
> 
> These guys got it working in 2006:
> 
> http://www.linuxgazette.net/124/smith.html
> 
> 2. Set up a separate thin client for each workstation and run LTSP on
> the server.  This seems inferior to #1 because it requires setting up
> and maintaining the LTSP server and client configuration, NFS, 
> xinetd,
> tftp, dnsmasq, and PXE-boot.  Bandwidth would also be limited 
> compared
> to #1 and hardware and power requirements would be much greater.
> 
> 3. Run a Plugable thin client for each workstation:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004PXPPNA
> 
> This likely requires running "Userful Multiseat Linux" on my server
> which is only packaged up for Ubuntu.  The Plugable thin client
> connects to the server via USB 2.0 which makes me wonder if it could
> be made to work without Userful Multiseat Linux as a USB video card
> and input devices, but I imagine drivers for the video card and
> bandwidth over USB could be a problem.
> 
> I think #1 is the way to go but I'd love to hear anyone else's 
> opinion
> on that.  Has anyone here ever set up multiseat in Xorg?
> 
> - Grant
> 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Helmut Jarausch
Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany

Re: [gentoo-user] Multiseat -- LTSP?

[Mick]

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On Sunday 29 Jan 2012 23:29:37 Grant wrote:
> >> I'd like to have multiple users working from separate monitors,
> >> keyboards, and mice, but all connected to a single Gentoo computer.
> >> The main purpose is to minimize sys admin duties but hardware and
> >> power requirements would also be minimized.
> >> 
> >> Apparently this is called "multiseat" and native support in Xorg might
> >> not be ready for primetime:
> >> 
> >> http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Development/Documentation/Multiseat
> >> http://vignatti.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/multiseat-roadmap
> >> 
> >> There is a configuration tool for Xorg multiseat called MDM:
> >> 
> >> http://wiki.c3sl.ufpr.br/multiseat/index.php/Mdm
> >> 
> >> but from what I've read it isn't ideal.  Besides Xorg multiseat I've
> >> read about LTSP and a few others:
> >> 
> >> http://www.ltsp.org
> >> http://www.thinstation.org
> >> http://automseat.sourceforge.net
> >> http://www.openthinclient.org
> >> 
> >> There are also a lot of proprietary options.  Is LTSP the way to go?
> > 
> > It may be, but as with all thin client models you would need a terminal
> > computer for each user.
> > 
> > If you only have one machine and monitors, keyboards and mice for each
> > user then you'll need multiple video cards (and a strong power supply)
> > for your only PC.  In this case something like
> > http://automseat.sourceforge.net may be more appropriate.  However, I
> > have not used anything like this set up to offer an opinion on
> > performance.
> > 
> > At work we use thin clients running Debian to serve MSWindows server
> > desktop and apps to users.  This setup uses the Citrix ica protocol, but
> > I'm thinking that FreeNX coupled with VNC or relevant KDE or Gnome
> > remote desktop implementation would probably work nicely and offer LAN
> > and remote connection security at the same time.
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Mick
> 
> If I throw out installing a separate OS on a separate machine for each
> workstation and all of the proprietary thin-client protocols, I think
> I have 3 options:
> 
> 1. Connect monitors, USB keyboards, and USB mice directly to a server
> with multiple video cards.  I found a motherboard with 6 PCI-E slots:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128508
> 
> 6 video cards could be installed for 6 workstations if the server goes
> headless, and even more if multi-headed video cards are used.  Xorg
> requires some special configuration for this but this discussion from
> 2010 sounds like it's something that is actually done:
> 
> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-836950-start-0.html
> 
> These guys got it working in 2006:
> 
> http://www.linuxgazette.net/124/smith.html
> 
> 2. Set up a separate thin client for each workstation and run LTSP on
> the server.  This seems inferior to #1 because it requires setting up
> and maintaining the LTSP server and client configuration, NFS, xinetd,
> tftp, dnsmasq, and PXE-boot.  Bandwidth would also be limited compared
> to #1 and hardware and power requirements would be much greater.
> 
> 3. Run a Plugable thin client for each workstation:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004PXPPNA
> 
> This likely requires running "Userful Multiseat Linux" on my server
> which is only packaged up for Ubuntu.  The Plugable thin client
> connects to the server via USB 2.0 which makes me wonder if it could
> be made to work without Userful Multiseat Linux as a USB video card
> and input devices, but I imagine drivers for the video card and
> bandwidth over USB could be a problem.
> 
> I think #1 is the way to go but I'd love to hear anyone else's opinion
> on that.  Has anyone here ever set up multiseat in Xorg?

Can you rely on Xorg devs to ensure that they are not going to break your 
multiseat system in the future?

Are you sure that you will come across bandwidth issues if you follow option 
#2?  On a gigabit network at work we're running thousands of thin clients 
distributed across hundreds of VM servers, and there is no noticeable latency 
(unless a particular VM MSWindows server plays up).

I understand that managing multiple boxen is always a greater burden, but 
something like GNAP may lighten the work needed?

  http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/gnap-userguide.xml

Unfortunately I do not have experience of all the above setups to advice.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Multiseat -- LTSP?

[Grant]

> I've been in the same situation a short time ago.
> Finally I decided to buy a cheap notebook (ASUS AMD 1GHz, 8 Gb RAM)
> for 265 Euro, only -- running Gentoo, of course.
> I've installed a private wireless network.
> So my wife can sit anywhere and she can still connect to our "family
> server" if she likes.
>
> If I had to buy a monitor, graphics card, keyboard and a better
> power supply, that would have beeen more expensive.
> Furthermore the notebook solution is more flexible.

If we're comparing hardware cost vs. hardware performance and
flexibility, the cheap notebook could win.  The #1 priority for me is
minimizing sys admin duties though.  I would need a Gentoo system for
duties like router and firewall anyway, and if I build the multiseat
capabilities into that same system, I have at least 6 workstations and
zero systems to administrate because of them.

- Grant


>> >> I'd like to have multiple users working from separate monitors,
>> >> keyboards, and mice, but all connected to a single Gentoo
>> computer.
>> >> The main purpose is to minimize sys admin duties but hardware and
>> >> power requirements would also be minimized.
>> >>
>> >> Apparently this is called "multiseat" and native support in Xorg
>> might
>> >> not be ready for primetime:
>> >>
>> >> http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Development/Documentation/Multiseat
>> >> http://vignatti.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/multiseat-roadmap
>> >>
>> >> There is a configuration tool for Xorg multiseat called MDM:
>> >>
>> >> http://wiki.c3sl.ufpr.br/multiseat/index.php/Mdm
>> >>
>> >> but from what I've read it isn't ideal.  Besides Xorg multiseat
>> I've
>> >> read about LTSP and a few others:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.ltsp.org
>> >> http://www.thinstation.org
>> >> http://automseat.sourceforge.net
>> >> http://www.openthinclient.org
>> >>
>> >> There are also a lot of proprietary options.  Is LTSP the way to
>> go?
>> >
>> > It may be, but as with all thin client models you would need a
>> terminal
>> > computer for each user.
>> >
>> > If you only have one machine and monitors, keyboards and mice for
>> each user
>> > then you'll need multiple video cards (and a strong power supply)
>> for your
>> > only PC.  In this case something like
>> http://automseat.sourceforge.net may be
>> > more appropriate.  However, I have not used anything like this set
>> up to offer
>> > an opinion on performance.
>> >
>> > At work we use thin clients running Debian to serve MSWindows
>> server
>> desktop
>> > and apps to users.  This setup uses the Citrix ica protocol, but
>> I'm
>> thinking
>> > that FreeNX coupled with VNC or relevant KDE or Gnome remote
>> desktop
>> > implementation would probably work nicely and offer LAN and remote
>> connection
>> > security at the same time.
>> > --
>> > Regards,
>> > Mick
>>
>> If I throw out installing a separate OS on a separate machine for
>> each
>> workstation and all of the proprietary thin-client protocols, I think
>> I have 3 options:
>>
>> 1. Connect monitors, USB keyboards, and USB mice directly to a server
>> with multiple video cards.  I found a motherboard with 6 PCI-E slots:
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128508
>>
>> 6 video cards could be installed for 6 workstations if the server
>> goes
>> headless, and even more if multi-headed video cards are used.  Xorg
>> requires some special configuration for this but this discussion from
>> 2010 sounds like it's something that is actually done:
>>
>> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-836950-start-0.html
>>
>> These guys got it working in 2006:
>>
>> http://www.linuxgazette.net/124/smith.html
>>
>> 2. Set up a separate thin client for each workstation and run LTSP on
>> the server.  This seems inferior to #1 because it requires setting up
>> and maintaining the LTSP server and client configuration, NFS,
>> xinetd,
>> tftp, dnsmasq, and PXE-boot.  Bandwidth would also be limited
>> compared
>> to #1 and hardware and power requirements would be much greater.
>>
>> 3. Run a Plugable thin client for each workstation:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004PXPPNA
>>
>> This likely requires running "Userful Multiseat Linux" on my server
>> which is only packaged up for Ubuntu.  The Plugable thin client
>> connects to the server via USB 2.0 which makes me wonder if it could
>> be made to work without Userful Multiseat Linux as a USB video card
>> and input devices, but I imagine drivers for the video card and
>> bandwidth over USB could be a problem.
>>
>> I think #1 is the way to go but I'd love to hear anyone else's
>> opinion
>> on that.  Has anyone here ever set up multiseat in Xorg?
>>
>> - Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Multiseat -- LTSP?

[Grant]

[snip]
>> If I throw out installing a separate OS on a separate machine for each
>> workstation and all of the proprietary thin-client protocols, I think
>> I have 3 options:
>>
>> 1. Connect monitors, USB keyboards, and USB mice directly to a server
>> with multiple video cards.  I found a motherboard with 6 PCI-E slots:
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128508
>>
>> 6 video cards could be installed for 6 workstations if the server goes
>> headless, and even more if multi-headed video cards are used.  Xorg
>> requires some special configuration for this but this discussion from
>> 2010 sounds like it's something that is actually done:
>>
>> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-836950-start-0.html
>>
>> These guys got it working in 2006:
>>
>> http://www.linuxgazette.net/124/smith.html
>>
>> 2. Set up a separate thin client for each workstation and run LTSP on
>> the server.  This seems inferior to #1 because it requires setting up
>> and maintaining the LTSP server and client configuration, NFS, xinetd,
>> tftp, dnsmasq, and PXE-boot.  Bandwidth would also be limited compared
>> to #1 and hardware and power requirements would be much greater.
>>
>> 3. Run a Plugable thin client for each workstation:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004PXPPNA
>>
>> This likely requires running "Userful Multiseat Linux" on my server
>> which is only packaged up for Ubuntu.  The Plugable thin client
>> connects to the server via USB 2.0 which makes me wonder if it could
>> be made to work without Userful Multiseat Linux as a USB video card
>> and input devices, but I imagine drivers for the video card and
>> bandwidth over USB could be a problem.
>>
>> I think #1 is the way to go but I'd love to hear anyone else's opinion
>> on that.  Has anyone here ever set up multiseat in Xorg?
>
> Can you rely on Xorg devs to ensure that they are not going to break your
> multiseat system in the future?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know why there would be (much) more
likelihood of regression with Xorg multiseat than with anything else,
including LTSP and all of its dependencies.  In the context of both
hardware and software, I think there are much fewer points of
potential failure with multiseat than with an LTSP thin-client
arrangement.

> Are you sure that you will come across bandwidth issues if you follow option
> #2?  On a gigabit network at work we're running thousands of thin clients
> distributed across hundreds of VM servers, and there is no noticeable latency
> (unless a particular VM MSWindows server plays up).

I'm sure I wouldn't.  I only mentioned the increased bandwidth of
multiseat vs. thin-clients as a technicality.

> I understand that managing multiple boxen is always a greater burden, but
> something like GNAP may lighten the work needed?
>
>  http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/gnap-userguide.xml

That looks cool, but from my perspective it's another layer to learn,
install, configure, and manage.  chef and puppet take a different
approach to lessening the burden of administrating multiple systems,
but in the end neither approach comes anywhere near the hardware and
software simplicity (and corresponding ease of setup and maintenance)
of multiseat.

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Multiseat -- LTSP?

[Stroller]

On 30 January 2012, at 17:41, Grant wrote:
>> ...
>> Can you rely on Xorg devs to ensure that they are not going to break your
>> multiseat system in the future?
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know why there would be (much) more
> likelihood of regression with Xorg multiseat than with anything else,
> including LTSP and all of its dependencies. 

Because fewer people are testing it.

You can get low-powered Linux systems for $100 or $150 - either a little MIPs ShivaPlug or (I guess) a secondhand atom nettop (Acer Revo).

If you save 2 hours per machine by using a standard and common thinclient configuration, then the hardware has paid for itself.

If you have to employ a Linux sys admin to help you fix a complicated problem with Xorg multiseat, then it will run you at least $100 or $150 for those 2 hours. That's how you should be valuing your own time, too.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Multiseat -- LTSP?

[Grant]

>>> Can you rely on Xorg devs to ensure that they are not going to break your
>>> multiseat system in the future?
>>
>> Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know why there would be (much) more
>> likelihood of regression with Xorg multiseat than with anything else,
>> including LTSP and all of its dependencies.
>
> Because fewer people are testing it.

That's fair but Gentoo makes it easy to roll back if necessary.

> You can get low-powered Linux systems for $100 or $150 - either a little MIPs ShivaPlug or (I guess) a secondhand atom nettop (Acer Revo).
>
> If you save 2 hours per machine by using a standard and common thinclient configuration, then the hardware has paid for itself.

You're saying use built-in thin-client firmware (on the SheevaPlug for
example) along with something like VNC or NX on the server to save
time over an LTSP setup?  That would mean giving up some software
control.  Assuming multiseat works, is there an advantage to this over
multiseat?

> If you have to employ a Linux sys admin to help you fix a complicated problem with Xorg multiseat, then it will run you at least $100 or $150 for those 2 hours. That's how you should be valuing your own time, too.

LTSP and its host of dependencies seem much more complicated to me
than multiseat.

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Multiseat -- LTSP?

[Grant]

>>>> Can you rely on Xorg devs to ensure that they are not going to break your
>>>> multiseat system in the future?
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know why there would be (much) more
>>> likelihood of regression with Xorg multiseat than with anything else,
>>> including LTSP and all of its dependencies.
>>
>> Because fewer people are testing it.
>
> That's fair but Gentoo makes it easy to roll back if necessary.
>
>> You can get low-powered Linux systems for $100 or $150 - either a little MIPs ShivaPlug or (I guess) a secondhand atom nettop (Acer Revo).
>>
>> If you save 2 hours per machine by using a standard and common thinclient configuration, then the hardware has paid for itself.
>
> You're saying use built-in thin-client firmware (on the SheevaPlug for
> example) along with something like VNC or NX on the server to save
> time over an LTSP setup?  That would mean giving up some software
> control.  Assuming multiseat works, is there an advantage to this over
> multiseat?
>
>> If you have to employ a Linux sys admin to help you fix a complicated problem with Xorg multiseat, then it will run you at least $100 or $150 for those 2 hours. That's how you should be valuing your own time, too.
>
> LTSP and its host of dependencies seem much more complicated to me
> than multiseat.
>
> - Grant

Nevermind on this.  I'm back in now.

- Grant

[gentoo-user] Re: Multiseat -- LTSP?

[James]

Grant <emailgrant <at> gmail.com> writes:

> 
> >> I'd like to have multiple users working from separate monitors,
> >> keyboards, and mice, but all connected to a single Gentoo computer.
> >> The main purpose is to minimize sys admin duties but hardware and
> >> power requirements would also be minimized.

ATI make quad head video cards. If you do not need fancy graphics,
the cost is very reasonable. the easiest thing is to get a multi
head card, with keyboard and mouse ports for each monitor port, 
if they are still manufactured. If not, get dual head cards complete
with mouse and keyboard ports. 

http://www.multiplemonitors.org/Pages - Hardware/Hardware - Multi head Video
cards.html


Or you might want to consider an open hardware board, complete with 
video chip as an extremely low power/cost option. My favorite is:

http://www.pandaboard.org/
gentoo runs on this board -->
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/handbook/
(see ch9 under boards)




hth,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] Multiseat -- LTSP?

[Stroller]

On 3 February 2012, at 15:34, James wrote:
> Grant <emailgrant <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> 
>>>> I'd like to have multiple users working from separate monitors,
>>>> keyboards, and mice, but all connected to a single Gentoo computer.
>>>> The main purpose is to minimize sys admin duties but hardware and
>>>> power requirements would also be minimized.
> 
> ATI make quad head video cards. If you do not need fancy graphics,
> the cost is very reasonable. the easiest thing is to get a multi
> head card, with keyboard and mouse ports for each monitor port, 
> if they are still manufactured. If not, get dual head cards complete
> with mouse and keyboard ports. 

Why not just use USB mice & keyboards?

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Multiseat -- LTSP?

[Grant]

>> >> I'd like to have multiple users working from separate monitors,
>> >> keyboards, and mice, but all connected to a single Gentoo computer.
>> >> The main purpose is to minimize sys admin duties but hardware and
>> >> power requirements would also be minimized.
>
> ATI make quad head video cards. If you do not need fancy graphics,
> the cost is very reasonable. the easiest thing is to get a multi
> head card, with keyboard and mouse ports for each monitor port,
> if they are still manufactured. If not, get dual head cards complete
> with mouse and keyboard ports.

Quad-headed video cards would be pretty amazing.  24 workstations
running from a single host....  As a note, from what I've read I would
need to patch the kernel if using a multi-headed video card with only
one PCI address.

- Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Multiseat -- LTSP?

[Michael Mol]

On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> I'd like to have multiple users working from separate monitors,
>>> >> keyboards, and mice, but all connected to a single Gentoo computer.
>>> >> The main purpose is to minimize sys admin duties but hardware and
>>> >> power requirements would also be minimized.
>>
>> ATI make quad head video cards. If you do not need fancy graphics,
>> the cost is very reasonable. the easiest thing is to get a multi
>> head card, with keyboard and mouse ports for each monitor port,
>> if they are still manufactured. If not, get dual head cards complete
>> with mouse and keyboard ports.
>
> Quad-headed video cards would be pretty amazing.  24 workstations
> running from a single host....  As a note, from what I've read I would
> need to patch the kernel if using a multi-headed video card with only
> one PCI address.

Used to be, multi-head cards would list each head as a separate
sub-device. I was surprised to find my GeForce 210 (which can support
up to three outputs. One DVI, one {VGA|DisplayPort} (don't remember)
and one HDMI) only shows one device. I know I saw it on some old AGP
and PCI cards which had S-Video out.

Strange.

Anyway...if looking to drive more than one head off the same video
card, keep in mind that DVI and HDMI are only an adapter apart. I've
got a bunch of DVI<->HDMI adapters, and some are attached to the DVI
port on a monitor (allowing me to use a computer's HDMI output with
that monitor), and some are attached to the DVI port on a computer
(allowing me to use an HDMI-only monitor with the DVI port on a
computer).

It's really not hard to find triple-head cards with DVI, HDMI and one
of VGA or DisplayPort. Pretty sure I've simultaneously used all three
outputs on a DVI+HDMI+VGA card, but I don't remember which card. Some
only support driving two of those outputs at a time.

/me pines for his 5-display HTPC+desktop setup.

-- 
:wq