From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NIUXn-0005Ip-1e for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:57:59 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 894F5E0761; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 21:57:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtpout.karoo.kcom.com (smtpout.karoo.kcom.com [212.50.160.34]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CE38E0761 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 21:57:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from unknown (HELO compaq.stroller.uk.eu.org) ([213.152.39.90]) by smtpout.karoo.kcom.com with ESMTP; 09 Dec 2009 21:57:20 +0000 Received: from funf.stroller.uk.eu.org (funf.stroller.uk.eu.org [192.168.1.71]) by compaq.stroller.uk.eu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4767713C4D for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2009 21:57:17 +0000 (GMT) Message-Id: From: Stroller To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: <200912092142.56433.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Problems setting up sshd on an installation kernel Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 21:57:18 +0000 References: <20091206144836.GA2599@muc.de> <200912091743.50847.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> <20091209164611.GE8387@muc.de> <200912092142.56433.alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) X-Archives-Salt: 83bc24cf-2338-443e-ab89-52607842af47 X-Archives-Hash: af9eeb7e296aee8b2353b3c579dec2af On 9 Dec 2009, at 19:42, Alan McKinnon wrote: > ... > Installation is supposed to be an atomic operation - it > starts then continues till it ends. It either fully completes or is > considered > to not have happened, meaning that persistence is diametrically > opposed to > what an install is. It's analogous to a compile - terminating > compilation at > some arbitrary point then picking up from where it ended at some > later point > is just not supported. Possible yes, but not supported by default. I'd disagree with you on that point, assuming I'm reading you right. If a compile fails it shouldn't be an "unsupported" situation. One should be able to reemerge the package, possibly after emerging a required dependency first. That should work just fine (and surely it always does?). Likewise it's not at all uncommon to make a mistake during the installation process - to miss out an essential kernel driver or package, and find that the installation fails to boot. The way I interpret your statement is that the supported remedy is to start again completely from scratch. Clearly this is not what one does - one boots again with the LiveCD, chroots into the installation, makes the fix and then reboots again to see if the system is now fixed. Every new Gentoo user has to do this a number of times, it is our standard advice to them, and we, as experienced users, will still have to do the same thing occasionally due to our own oversights. However, I would agree with you that resolving Alan Mackenzie's problems with ssh should not be a priority. The "standard" procedure should be written for a user sitting in front of the machine on which Gentoo is being installed. Installing via SSH is an "advanced" procedure and should be considered to be undertaken by users who know what they're doing. The requirement to rarely remove a line from ~/.ssh/known_hosts is really not much hassle. I am somewhat surprised that Mr Mackenzie managed to waste as much time as 10 hours attempting to SSH into the "wrong" environment, as it has never occurred to me to do it that way around, and Florian posted appropriate advice to resolve the problem less than 2 hours after Alan's original post. I think this is typical of the kind of mistake we all make and learn from - we have all wasted 10 hours on some occasion, only to kick ourselves afterwards. When we do this we learn never again to make the same mistake. On 9 Dec 2009, at 16:46, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > However, setting up /dev completely (with --rbind) costs nothing, adds > capability, and takes nothing away. It is not clear to me that this is the "obvious" and "optimal" solution. It may be. I cannot foresee whether it may introduce side- effects. Stroller.