[gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Stroller]

Some comments were made recently about KDE4, where it was advised  
"don't try using just Kmail under a different window manager - use the  
whole KDE environment, but not single apps. Use something else instead  
of Kmail".

I kept my gob somewhat shut at that time, because I've been using  
Knode for a long time on my headless server. I ssh in from my Mac and  
open Knode in X11.

I guess Usenet isn't so popular these days, and I have never been able  
to find a Mac native client that I'm happy with.

I like Knode's simple 3-pane layout. Knode has improved visually with  
the KDE4 release, but the much debated KDE4 dependencies thing.

It has only just occurred to me today to ask if there's an alternative  
that looks & acts just the same, but which isn't part of the whole  
KDE4 environment.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1054 bytes --]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:42:25 +0000, Stroller wrote:

> Some comments were made recently about KDE4, where it was advised  
> "don't try using just Kmail under a different window manager - use the  
> whole KDE environment, but not single apps. Use something else instead  
> of Kmail".

I took it more as "KDE programs are intended to be run on KDE, so don't
complain if they don't work as you want elsewhere". So if it works and
you are happy with it, why change?

> I like Knode's simple 3-pane layout. Knode has improved visually with  
> the KDE4 release, but the much debated KDE4 dependencies thing.
> 
> It has only just occurred to me today to ask if there's an alternative  
> that looks & acts just the same, but which isn't part of the whole  
> KDE4 environment.

I haven't done usenet in a while, but when I did I preferred Pan to
Knode. While I am a KDE fan, I do find myself using quite a few GTK apps
on my KDE desktop.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The considered application of terror is also a form of communication.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Stroller]

On 23 Feb 2010, at 09:09, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:42:25 +0000, Stroller wrote:
>
>> Some comments were made recently about KDE4, where it was advised
>> "don't try using just Kmail under a different window manager - use  
>> the
>> whole KDE environment, but not single apps. Use something else  
>> instead
>> of Kmail".
>
> I took it more as "KDE programs are intended to be run on KDE, so  
> don't
> complain if they don't work as you want elsewhere". So if it works and
> you are happy with it, why change?

Well, duh! I'm not really happy with it. Not with all the  
dependencies. And whilst I see why they're necessary regarding KDE's  
future direction, I'd prefer to be without them.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Peter Ruskin]

On Tuesday 23 February 2010 05:42:25 Stroller wrote:
> Some comments were made recently about KDE4, where it was advised
> "don't try using just Kmail under a different window manager -
> use the whole KDE environment, but not single apps. Use something
> else instead of Kmail".
>
> I kept my gob somewhat shut at that time, because I've been using
> Knode for a long time on my headless server. I ssh in from my Mac
> and open Knode in X11.
>
> I guess Usenet isn't so popular these days, and I have never been
> able to find a Mac native client that I'm happy with.
>
> I like Knode's simple 3-pane layout. Knode has improved visually
> with the KDE4 release, but the much debated KDE4 dependencies
> thing.
>
> It has only just occurred to me today to ask if there's an
> alternative that looks & acts just the same, but which isn't part
> of the whole KDE4 environment.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Stroller.

I've always used pan in preference to knode.

-- 
Peter
========================================================================
Gentoo Linux: Portage 2.2_rc63			kernel-2.6.32-gentoo-r5
AMD Phenom(tm) 9950 Quad-Core Processor		gcc(Gentoo: 4.4.3)
KDE: 3.5.10					Qt: 3.3.8b
========================================================================

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[ubiquitous1980]

Peter Ruskin wrote:
> On Tuesday 23 February 2010 05:42:25 Stroller wrote:
>   
>> Some comments were made recently about KDE4, where it was advised
>> "don't try using just Kmail under a different window manager -
>> use the whole KDE environment, but not single apps. Use something
>> else instead of Kmail".
>>
>> I kept my gob somewhat shut at that time, because I've been using
>> Knode for a long time on my headless server. I ssh in from my Mac
>> and open Knode in X11.
>>
>> I guess Usenet isn't so popular these days, and I have never been
>> able to find a Mac native client that I'm happy with.
>>
>> I like Knode's simple 3-pane layout. Knode has improved visually
>> with the KDE4 release, but the much debated KDE4 dependencies
>> thing.
>>
>> It has only just occurred to me today to ask if there's an
>> alternative that looks & acts just the same, but which isn't part
>> of the whole KDE4 environment.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Stroller.
>>     
>
> I've always used pan in preference to knode.
>
>   
I don't use knode or usenet, but am I missing something?  Can't kde4
applications be used on Mac these days?

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Stroller]

On 23 Feb 2010, at 09:16, ubiquitous1980 wrote:
> ...
> I don't use knode or usenet, but am I missing something?  Can't kde4
> applications be used on Mac these days?

Perhaps.

The Mac Unix experience is that grep and sed and shellscripts and  
stuff like that are useful. If you just want something small like  
exiftool then it's easy to make && install it.

Larger packages with lots of dependencies, though, it's just less  
hassle to let a native package manager install them under Linux.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Stroller]

On 23 Feb 2010, at 09:29, Peter Ruskin wrote:
> ...
> I've always used pan in preference to knode.

Thanks. From the screenshots at <http://pan.rebelbase.com/screenshots/ 
 > it looks perfect.

Stroller.

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/23/2010 07:42 AM, Stroller wrote:
> Some comments were made recently about KDE4, where it was advised "don't
> try using just Kmail under a different window manager - use the whole
> KDE environment, but not single apps. Use something else instead of Kmail".
>
> I kept my gob somewhat shut at that time, because I've been using Knode
> for a long time on my headless server. I ssh in from my Mac and open
> Knode in X11.
>
> I guess Usenet isn't so popular these days, and I have never been able
> to find a Mac native client that I'm happy with.
>
> I like Knode's simple 3-pane layout. Knode has improved visually with
> the KDE4 release, but the much debated KDE4 dependencies thing.
>
> It has only just occurred to me today to ask if there's an alternative
> that looks & acts just the same, but which isn't part of the whole KDE4
> environment.
>
> Any suggestions?

I'm on KDE4 but I use Thunderbird for both Usenet (including this 
mailing list through GMane's "mailing-list-to-Usenet" interface) and 
email.  I like the simplicity and using only one app for both.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 504 bytes --]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:11:40 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> I'm on KDE4 but I use Thunderbird for both Usenet (including this 
> mailing list through GMane's "mailing-list-to-Usenet" interface) and 
> email.  I like the simplicity and using only one app for both.

Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only to read it
in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be even more simple?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

SITCOM: Single Income, Two Children, Oppressive Mortgage

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/23/2010 12:26 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:11:40 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>> I'm on KDE4 but I use Thunderbird for both Usenet (including this
>> mailing list through GMane's "mailing-list-to-Usenet" interface) and
>> email.  I like the simplicity and using only one app for both.
>
> Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only to read it
> in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be even more simple?

No, because then I would get all the mail in my inbox and I would be the 
one responsible for filtering it; a total waste on bandwidth and my 
time.  GMane does that for me instead.

I am currently "subscribed" to 31 mailing lists on GMane.  I don't even 
want to imagine what would happen if I would receive email from all of 
them (and 90% of the posts would not interest me anyway, so why recieve 
them in the first place?)  It's just not practical.  A Usenet-like 
front-end is the perfect solution here; a mailing list is very similar 
to a Usenet newsgroup and that's why this approach is the most practical 
one.  And even if I were subscribed to only one list, it would still be 
the best way to access it; even though the traffic is much lower when 
compared to 31 lists, but it's still high enough to get annoying with 
something landing on your inbox every 10 minutes or so, even stuff you 
don't intend to read.  With Usenet, you only get what you're interested 
in, and you get it in a way that is very easy to access and browse though.

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/23/2010 01:39 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 02/23/2010 12:26 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:11:40 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>
>>> I'm on KDE4 but I use Thunderbird for both Usenet (including this
>>> mailing list through GMane's "mailing-list-to-Usenet" interface) and
>>> email. I like the simplicity and using only one app for both.
>>
>> Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only to read it
>> in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be even more simple?
>
> No, because then I would get all the mail in my inbox and I would be the
> one responsible for filtering it; a total waste on bandwidth and my
> time. GMane does that for me instead.

Just to make my point more clear:

   http://i50.tinypic.com/15ow2g8.png

All of these under the "GMane" groups are mailing lists, but they appear 
just like Usenet newsgroups.  I can't imagine any easier way to easily 
deal with 30+ mailing list subscriptions.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Mick]

On 23 February 2010 11:48, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> wrote:
> On 02/23/2010 01:39 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>
>> On 02/23/2010 12:26 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:11:40 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm on KDE4 but I use Thunderbird for both Usenet (including this
>>>> mailing list through GMane's "mailing-list-to-Usenet" interface) and
>>>> email. I like the simplicity and using only one app for both.
>>>
>>> Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only to read it
>>> in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be even more simple?
>>
>> No, because then I would get all the mail in my inbox and I would be the
>> one responsible for filtering it; a total waste on bandwidth and my
>> time. GMane does that for me instead.
>
> Just to make my point more clear:
>
>  http://i50.tinypic.com/15ow2g8.png
>
> All of these under the "GMane" groups are mailing lists, but they appear
> just like Usenet newsgroups.  I can't imagine any easier way to easily deal
> with 30+ mailing list subscriptions.

Also, unlike when using a mail client, with usenet you don't have to
download the message/thread if you're not interested in reading it.

Back to the OP's topic, I am also using Knode (but not for this M/L).
If you set your USE flags right you should be able to continue using
Kmail/Knode without some of the dependencies that the full KDE4
desktop requires.  However, I don't know if from KDE4.4 changes on
dependencies (as per recent thread on semantic-desktop) mean that more
of these will be pulled in.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 442 bytes --]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:48:03 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

>    http://i50.tinypic.com/15ow2g8.png
> 
> All of these under the "GMane" groups are mailing lists, but they
> appear just like Usenet newsgroups.  I can't imagine any easier way to
> easily deal with 30+ mailing list subscriptions.

That looks just like my mailboxes do :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Anything is possible if you don't know what
you are talking about.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Grant Edwards]

On 2010-02-23, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> wrote:
> On 02/23/2010 01:39 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 02/23/2010 12:26 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>
>>> Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only
>>> to read it in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be
>>> even more simple?
>>
>> No, because then I would get all the mail in my inbox and I
>> would be the one responsible for filtering it; a total waste
>> on bandwidth and my time. GMane does that for me instead.
>
> Just to make my point more clear:
>
>    http://i50.tinypic.com/15ow2g8.png
>
> All of these under the "GMane" groups are mailing lists, but they appear 
> just like Usenet newsgroups.  I can't imagine any easier way to easily 
> deal with 30+ mailing list subscriptions.

I too use Gmane to read all mailing lists, but I use a
dedicated news client (slrn) instead of a combined e-mail/news
client.  I definitely don't want all those e-mailes coming
through my in-box where _I've_ got to filter, sort, and archive
them. I'd much rather let gmane handle that.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! BARBARA STANWYCK makes
                                  at               me nervous!!
                               visi.com            

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Frank Steinmetzger]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: Text/Plain, Size: 1964 bytes --]

Am Dienstag 23 Februar 2010 schrieb Nikos Chantziaras:
> On 02/23/2010 01:39 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > On 02/23/2010 12:26 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:11:40 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >>> I'm on KDE4 but I use Thunderbird for both Usenet (including this
> >>> mailing list through GMane's "mailing-list-to-Usenet" interface) and
> >>> email. I like the simplicity and using only one app for both.
> >> 
> >> Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only to read
> >> it in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be even more simple?
> > 
> > No, because then I would get all the mail in my inbox and I would be the
> > one responsible for filtering it; a total waste on bandwidth and my
> > time. GMane does that for me instead.
> 
> Just to make my point more clear:
> 
>    http://i50.tinypic.com/15ow2g8.png

OT: It occured to me that many, including you, have this awfully fuzzy font 
rendering. Aren’t you bothered by that? (Assuming you’re on a TFT). When I 
look at your image, my view starts floating on a plane in front of the screen.

See http://i47.tinypic.com/1zxsbok.png

As you can see, I’m also using a mail client for those lists. At the 
beginning, I used my Uni’s news server, but at some point, I couldn’t post to 
this list anymore through NNTP. So I had to switch to mail interface.

But even though local archiving works better with mails (articles are gone 
from the news server after a short while), I’d prefer the NNTP way though, 
it’s easier to view the list filtered (e.g. no ignored threads).
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' - http://www.stud.tu-ilmenau.de/~frst-ii/ - EDOB
Nicht von Staat und Konzernen ausschnüffeln lassen, E-Mails verschlüsseln!
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Privacy_Guard  http://hp.kairaven.de/pgp/

Die USA haben den Weg von der Barbarei zur Dekadenz
ohne den Umweg über die Kultur gewählt.

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/25/2010 11:45 PM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> Am Dienstag 23 Februar 2010 schrieb Nikos Chantziaras:
>> On 02/23/2010 01:39 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>> On 02/23/2010 12:26 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:11:40 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>>> I'm on KDE4 but I use Thunderbird for both Usenet (including this
>>>>> mailing list through GMane's "mailing-list-to-Usenet" interface) and
>>>>> email. I like the simplicity and using only one app for both.
>>>>
>>>> Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only to read
>>>> it in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be even more simple?
>>>
>>> No, because then I would get all the mail in my inbox and I would be the
>>> one responsible for filtering it; a total waste on bandwidth and my
>>> time. GMane does that for me instead.
>>
>> Just to make my point more clear:
>>
>>     http://i50.tinypic.com/15ow2g8.png
>
> OT: It occured to me that many, including you, have this awfully fuzzy font
> rendering. Aren’t you bothered by that? (Assuming you’re on a TFT). When I
> look at your image, my view starts floating on a plane in front of the screen.
>
> See http://i47.tinypic.com/1zxsbok.png

No, actually I find it much better then the one in your screenshot. 
Much easier to read for me.  I guess this is due to differences in our 
monitor's DPI.  I can image that lower DPI monitors must show it pretty 
"zoomed-in" and therefore blurry.  The fonts in your screenshot actually 
look like small, thin lines instead of proper fonts here.


> As you can see, I’m also using a mail client for those lists. At the
> beginning, I used my Uni’s news server, but at some point, I couldn’t post to
> this list anymore through NNTP. So I had to switch to mail interface.
>
> But even though local archiving works better with mails (articles are gone
> from the news server after a short while), I’d prefer the NNTP way though,
> it’s easier to view the list filtered (e.g. no ignored threads).

For what it's worth, GMane's NNTP server never deletes messages.  In the 
case of gentoo-user, everything's still there; the oldest posts date 
back to 2002.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2067 bytes --]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:39:48 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> > Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only to
> > read it in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be even more
> > simple?  
> 
> No, because then I would get all the mail in my inbox and I would be
> the one responsible for filtering it; a total waste on bandwidth and my 
> time.  GMane does that for me instead.

Well, setting up filters is hardly taxing or time consuming, but I see
your point.

> I am currently "subscribed" to 31 mailing lists on GMane.  I don't even 
> want to imagine what would happen if I would receive email from all of 
> them (and 90% of the posts would not interest me anyway, so why recieve 
> them in the first place?)  It's just not practical.  A Usenet-like 
> front-end is the perfect solution here; a mailing list is very similar 
> to a Usenet newsgroup and that's why this approach is the most
> practical one.  And even if I were subscribed to only one list, it
> would still be the best way to access it; even though the traffic is
> much lower when compared to 31 lists, but it's still high enough to get
> annoying with something landing on your inbox every 10 minutes or so,
> even stuff you don't intend to read.  With Usenet, you only get what
> you're interested in, and you get it in a way that is very easy to
> access and browse though.

With the downside being that the process is slower, as you have to
download each message or thread as you want to read it. Contrast this
with having email delivered whether you are reading it or not and being
filtered at the moment of arrival so it is instantly available, sorted
into folders, when you start up your client. However, this convenience
uses more bandwidth, so if that is worth more to you than your time, using
Usenet for selective reading does make sense.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

furbling, v.:
	Having to wander through a maze of ropes at an airport or bank
	even when you are the only person in line.
		-- Rich Hall, "Sniglets"

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/23/2010 03:08 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:39:48 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> I am currently "subscribed" to 31 mailing lists on GMane.  I don't even
>> want to imagine what would happen if I would receive email from all of
>> them (and 90% of the posts would not interest me anyway, so why recieve
>> them in the first place?)  It's just not practical.  A Usenet-like
>> front-end is the perfect solution here; a mailing list is very similar
>> to a Usenet newsgroup and that's why this approach is the most
>> practical one.  And even if I were subscribed to only one list, it
>> would still be the best way to access it; even though the traffic is
>> much lower when compared to 31 lists, but it's still high enough to get
>> annoying with something landing on your inbox every 10 minutes or so,
>> even stuff you don't intend to read.  With Usenet, you only get what
>> you're interested in, and you get it in a way that is very easy to
>> access and browse though.
>
> With the downside being that the process is slower, as you have to
> download each message or thread as you want to read it. Contrast this
> with having email delivered whether you are reading it or not and being
> filtered at the moment of arrival so it is instantly available, sorted
> into folders, when you start up your client. However, this convenience
> uses more bandwidth, so if that is worth more to you than your time, using
> Usenet for selective reading does make sense.

No, each message gets downloaded in under 1 second; it immediately 
appears when you click on it.  It's blindingly fast.  No surprise 
though, since it's just text.  However, downloading thousands of 
messages per day that I don't intent to read is a waste of bandwidth. 
It's not so much about time, it's about volume.

You and I do the same thing in the end.  The difference is that you 
waste bandwidth, need to set up filters every time you subscribe to a 
new list, need to unsubscribe when you don't want to receive email 
anymore, need hard disk space to store all the downloaded messages, 
don't have access to messages from the time you weren't subscribed yet, 
and probably more I can't think of right now.

So in the end, we end up doing the same thing, by I do it in a saner way 
that was designed to do exactly that. :)  It appears it only has pros 
and no cons, so I don't see a reason to use email instead.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1328 bytes --]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:59:33 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> You and I do the same thing in the end.  The difference is that you 
> waste bandwidth, need to set up filters every time you subscribe to a 
> new list

Which takes about ten seconds usually.

>, need to unsubscribe when you don't want to receive email 
> anymore,

Which takes about half that time, and both of these are infrequent
occurrences. For lists that I had only a transient interest in, I would
look at usenet versions. 

> need hard disk space to store all the downloaded messages, 
> don't have access to messages from the time you weren't subscribed yet, 

No, but I do have access to  Google :)

> So in the end, we end up doing the same thing, by I do it in a saner
> way that was designed to do exactly that. :)

No, you do it in a different way that suits your needs. That doesn't make
you right and people with other needs wrong. It just illustrates the
benefits of choice. I did not insult your choice, why assume that you
know better than me what I need?

> It appears it only has
> pros and no cons, so I don't see a reason to use email instead.

How do you read messages without an Internet connection?

Everything has pros and cons.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Walk softly and carry a fully charged phazer.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/23/2010 05:15 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:59:33 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>> You and I do the same thing in the end.  The difference is that you
>> waste bandwidth, need to set up filters every time you subscribe to a
>> new list
>
> Which takes about ten seconds usually.

10 is more than 0 :D


>> , need to unsubscribe when you don't want to receive email
>> anymore,
>
> Which takes about half that time, and both of these are infrequent
> occurrences. For lists that I had only a transient interest in, I would
> look at usenet versions.

And when later you want to subscribe again...


>> need hard disk space to store all the downloaded messages,
>> don't have access to messages from the time you weren't subscribed yet,
>
> No, but I do have access to  Google :)

Yes, but this requires to go to Google.  I have the messages right there 
in front of me.


>> So in the end, we end up doing the same thing, by I do it in a saner
>> way that was designed to do exactly that. :)
>
> No, you do it in a different way that suits your needs. That doesn't make
> you right and people with other needs wrong. It just illustrates the
> benefits of choice. I did not insult your choice, why assume that you
> know better than me what I need?

No, that wasn't my intention.  All I'm saying in the end is that people 
stick to the ways they are used to do their tasks.  There might be 
better options out there, but it requires getting used to those new 
options so they usually don't bother.  I just though I'd mention the 
stuff here so people actually know the option exists and has saved me 
from quite some annoyances I had to deal with in the past.


>> It appears it only has
>> pros and no cons, so I don't see a reason to use email instead.
>
> How do you read messages without an Internet connection?
>
> Everything has pros and cons.

You got me with that one :)  Just because I don't have this problem 
doesn't mean no else does either.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1947 bytes --]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:25:45 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> > Which takes about ten seconds usually.
> 
> 10 is more than 0 :D

Not for large values of 0 :)

> >> , need to unsubscribe when you don't want to receive email
> >> anymore,
> >
> > Which takes about half that time, and both of these are infrequent
> > occurrences. For lists that I had only a transient interest in, I
> > would look at usenet versions.
> 
> And when later you want to subscribe again...

I'm not that indecisive... at least, I don't think I am ;-)

> >> need hard disk space to store all the downloaded messages,
> >> don't have access to messages from the time you weren't subscribed
> >> yet,
> >
> > No, but I do have access to  Google :)
> 
> Yes, but this requires to go to Google.  I have the messages right
> there in front of me.

What, all of them? You still need to search for old messages and if they
predate your subscribing you are only searching for specific information,
not particular threads. Or are you referring to backtracking a thread you
joined midway through? For that, online archives are useful.

> No, that wasn't my intention.  All I'm saying in the end is that people 
> stick to the ways they are used to do their tasks.  There might be 
> better options out there, but it requires getting used to those new 
> options so they usually don't bother.  I just though I'd mention the 
> stuff here so people actually know the option exists and has saved me 
> from quite some annoyances I had to deal with in the past.

Fair enough.

> > How do you read messages without an Internet connection?
> >
> > Everything has pros and cons.
> 
> You got me with that one :)  Just because I don't have this problem 
> doesn't mean no else does either.

You are permanently wired to the Internet? Don't you ever go out? :P


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Windows to CPU: Don't rush me, don't rush me...

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 02/23/2010 07:42 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>  [...]
>> You got me with that one :)  Just because I don't have this problem
>> doesn't mean no else does either.
>
> You are permanently wired to the Internet? Don't you ever go out? :P

I'm referring to the machine.  It's always connected.  Broadband 
flatrate ftw :P  There's no point in ever disconnecting it.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Zeerak Mustafa Waseem]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 570 bytes --]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 09:22:10PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 02/23/2010 07:42 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >>  [...]
> >> You got me with that one :)  Just because I don't have this problem
> >> doesn't mean no else does either.
> >
> > You are permanently wired to the Internet? Don't you ever go out? :P
> 
> I'm referring to the machine.  It's always connected.  Broadband 
> flatrate ftw :P  There's no point in ever disconnecting it.
> 
> 

Someone obviously isn't a student with ridiculously expensive electricity. ;-)

-- 
Zeerak Waseem

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 490 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 23 February 2010 22:06:04 Zeerak Mustafa Waseem wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 09:22:10PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > On 02/23/2010 07:42 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > >>  [...]
> > >> 
> > >> You got me with that one :)  Just because I don't have this problem
> > >> doesn't mean no else does either.
> > > 
> > > You are permanently wired to the Internet? Don't you ever go out? :P
> > 
> > I'm referring to the machine.  It's always connected.  Broadband
> > flatrate ftw :P  There's no point in ever disconnecting it.
> 
> Someone obviously isn't a student with ridiculously expensive electricity.
> ;-)


Or an admin at a major ISP and *very* good friends with those who dish out the 
bandwidth .... 

A man must look after his friends in this world, and they will look after you 

:-)



-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 23 February 2010 16:25:45 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> There might be better options out there, but it requires getting used
> to those new options so they usually don't bother.

That's me with cfg-update, conf-update etc. I got used to etc-update and 
I still use it because I know how to.

-- 
Rgds
Peter.

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Grant Edwards]

On 2010-02-23, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> With the downside being that the process is slower, as you
> have to download each message or thread as you want to read
> it. Contrast this with having email delivered whether you are
> reading it or not and being filtered at the moment of arrival
> so it is instantly available, sorted into folders, when you
> start up your client.

I get the impression you always read the mailing lists on a
single machine?  I read Gmane's "lists" from 4-5 different
machines and locations. Duplicating all that mail locally on
all those machines would be a pain.

> However, this convenience uses more bandwidth, so if that is
> worth more to you than your time, using Usenet for selective
> reading does make sense.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Hello...  IRON
                                  at               CURTAIN?  Send over a
                               visi.com            SAUSAGE PIZZA!  World War
                                                   III?  No thanks!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 643 bytes --]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:48:35 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:

> I get the impression you always read the mailing lists on a
> single machine?  I read Gmane's "lists" from 4-5 different
> machines and locations. Duplicating all that mail locally on
> all those machines would be a pain.

No, I read them from a number of machines but using a single server that
handles all the filtering too.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Theory is when you know everything, but nothing works.
Reality is when everything works, but you don't know why.
However, usually theory and reality are mixed together :
Nothing works, and nobody knows why not.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Grant Edwards]

On 2010-02-23, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:48:35 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> I get the impression you always read the mailing lists on a
>> single machine?  I read Gmane's "lists" from 4-5 different
>> machines and locations. Duplicating all that mail locally on
>> all those machines would be a pain.
>
> No, I read them from a number of machines but using a single
> server that handles all the filtering too.

Same here -- the only difference between the two approaches is
who's administering the server.  You handle it yourself, I let
gmane do it.  :)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Of course, you
                                  at               UNDERSTAND about the PLAIDS
                               visi.com            in the SPIN CYCLE --

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 694 bytes --]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:33:56 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:

> > No, I read them from a number of machines but using a single
> > server that handles all the filtering too.  
> 
> Same here -- the only difference between the two approaches is
> who's administering the server.  You handle it yourself, I let
> gmane do it.  :)

The main difference is that mine still works when my Internet connection
is not available. And that all my mail is accessible from the same place,
including mails I'd never put on a server owned by someone else.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The law of Probability Dispersal decrees that whatever it is that hits
the fan will not be evenly distributed.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Grant Edwards]

On 2010-02-23, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:33:56 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>>> No, I read them from a number of machines but using a single
>>> server that handles all the filtering too.  
>> 
>> Same here -- the only difference between the two approaches is
>> who's administering the server.  You handle it yourself, I let
>> gmane do it.  :)
>
> The main difference is that mine still works when my Internet
> connection is not available.

I read the mailing lists from many different locations. I don't
keep complete Usenet and mailing-list archives at all machines
and locations.  It doesn't really matter to me where the server
is -- if I've no network access, I can't read Usenet or mailing
lists.  But, it's just not an issue.

> And that all my mail is accessible from the same place,
> including mails I'd never put on a server owned by someone
> else.

I guess I just have no interest in keeping archives of 50
newsgroups/mailing-lists on a handful of different machines.
Any "servers" I set up would be a lot less reliable and
accessible than those at either Gmane or my Usenet provider.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! So this is what it
                                  at               feels like to be potato
                               visi.com            salad

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Neil Bothwick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 881 bytes --]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:32:54 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:

> > And that all my mail is accessible from the same place,
> > including mails I'd never put on a server owned by someone
> > else.  
> 
> I guess I just have no interest in keeping archives of 50
> newsgroups/mailing-lists on a handful of different machines.

Nor me, that's why it's all on one server.

> Any "servers" I set up would be a lot less reliable and
> accessible than those at either Gmane or my Usenet provider.

Possible, but the connection between them and you may not. I need to keep
some of my mails locally, not stored at an online service - as the server
is already there and set up, it makes sense to use it for everything. For
me, using an email-to-usenet gateway would actually mean more work.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Two rights don't make a wrong, they make an airplane.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 198 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[Paul Hartman]

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Stroller
<stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
> Some comments were made recently about KDE4, where it was advised "don't try
> using just Kmail under a different window manager - use the whole KDE
> environment, but not single apps. Use something else instead of Kmail".
>
> I kept my gob somewhat shut at that time, because I've been using Knode for
> a long time on my headless server. I ssh in from my Mac and open Knode in
> X11.
>
> I guess Usenet isn't so popular these days, and I have never been able to
> find a Mac native client that I'm happy with.
>
> I like Knode's simple 3-pane layout. Knode has improved visually with the
> KDE4 release, but the much debated KDE4 dependencies thing.
>
> It has only just occurred to me today to ask if there's an alternative that
> looks & acts just the same, but which isn't part of the whole KDE4
> environment.
>
> Any suggestions?

For textual usenet i use mail-client/mozilla-thunderbird. For binary
usenet I use net-nntp/bnr2.

[gentoo-user] Re: Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

[»Q«]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:42:25 +0000
Stroller <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:

> I like Knode's simple 3-pane layout. Knode has improved visually
> with the KDE4 release, but the much debated KDE4 dependencies thing.
> 
> It has only just occurred to me today to ask if there's an
> alternative that looks & acts just the same, but which isn't part of
> the whole KDE4 environment.
> 
> Any suggestions?

I'll add Claws Mail (mail-client/claws-mail) to the list of
suggestions.  It does three panes by default and has a gtk interface.
As you can probably guess from the name, it does e-mail also.

-- 
»Q«
     Kleeneness is next to Gödelness.