[gentoo-user] Adding a use flag: hwdb

[gentoo-user] Adding a use flag: hwdb

[Chris Stankevitz]

Hello,

Background:

I enable USE flags by adding them to /etc/portage/package.use.  This
file is filled with all sorts of "personal preference customizations"
of my system.  This file does not contain "required system USE flags".

A month ago emerge insisted that I enable a USE flag
"ruby_targets_ruby19" to a bunch of packages on my system.  Feeling
uncomfortable adding a "system required" USE flag to package.use (vs
"personal preference customization"), I posted to this list and indeed
learned that I was going about it all wrong!  In that particular case,
I should have added 'RUBY_TARGETS="ruby18 ruby19"' to /etc/make.conf.
Actually, the Gentoo team should add this to the profile... presumably
they will eventually do this or have done so already.

Question:

Today emerge is asking me to add "=sys-fs/udev-171-r6 hwdb" to
package.use to appease udisk.  Just as before, this looks fishy to me
and I would like to get your opinion about how to properly satisfy
this seemingly system-required-use-flag.  My gut instinct is that this
USE flag requirement should be handled by the Gentoo team in the
profile or in some other place that I never look at.

What do you guys think?  Should I append "udev hwdb" to package.use
right after my long list of "personal preference customizations"?

Thank you,

Chris

PS: A snippet from my /etc/portage/package.use:

# Give a GUI to cmake
dev-util/cmake qt4

# Enable nice mounts in gnome
gnome-base/gvfs fuse

# Enable plotting in octave
sci-mathematics/octave gnuplot

# Enable GNOME right-click to create targz
app-arch/file-roller nautilus

# Satisfy a dependency I do not understand needed by a package I never heard of
=sys-fs/udev-171-r6 hwdb

Re: [gentoo-user] Adding a use flag: hwdb

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:57:42 -0700
Chris Stankevitz <chrisstankevitz@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Background:
> 
> I enable USE flags by adding them to /etc/portage/package.use.  This
> file is filled with all sorts of "personal preference customizations"
> of my system.  This file does not contain "required system USE flags".
> 
> A month ago emerge insisted that I enable a USE flag
> "ruby_targets_ruby19" to a bunch of packages on my system.  Feeling
> uncomfortable adding a "system required" USE flag to package.use (vs
> "personal preference customization"), I posted to this list and indeed
> learned that I was going about it all wrong!  In that particular case,
> I should have added 'RUBY_TARGETS="ruby18 ruby19"' to /etc/make.conf.
> Actually, the Gentoo team should add this to the profile... presumably
> they will eventually do this or have done so already.
> 
> Question:
> 
> Today emerge is asking me to add "=sys-fs/udev-171-r6 hwdb" to
> package.use to appease udisk.  Just as before, this looks fishy to me
> and I would like to get your opinion about how to properly satisfy
> this seemingly system-required-use-flag.  My gut instinct is that this
> USE flag requirement should be handled by the Gentoo team in the
> profile or in some other place that I never look at.

It's not a question of "system" vs "personal preference"

It's a question of treating USE flags as global or local in scope. The
USE variable in make.conf applies globally, and the package.use file
applies to individual packages. Portage itself couldn't care how you
view the use of your flags, so you should organize them how you see fit.

See here:

$ euses -sf hwdb
sys-fs/udev:hwdb - read vendor/device string database and add it to
udev database

The flag applies to only one package.

Some USE flags do not have a sane default so there's no choice the devs
can make on your behalf. Especially convenience features like this one
- some folk want it, others do not. So the devs delegate the choice to
you to apply in any way you see fit.



> 
> What do you guys think?  Should I append "udev hwdb" to package.use
> right after my long list of "personal preference customizations"?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Chris
> 
> PS: A snippet from my /etc/portage/package.use:
> 
> # Give a GUI to cmake
> dev-util/cmake qt4
> 
> # Enable nice mounts in gnome
> gnome-base/gvfs fuse
> 
> # Enable plotting in octave
> sci-mathematics/octave gnuplot
> 
> # Enable GNOME right-click to create targz
> app-arch/file-roller nautilus
> 
> # Satisfy a dependency I do not understand needed by a package I
> never heard of =sys-fs/udev-171-r6 hwdb
> 



-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Adding a use flag: hwdb

[Alex Schuster]

Alan McKinnon writes:

> On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:57:42 -0700
> Chris Stankevitz <chrisstankevitz@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Today emerge is asking me to add "=sys-fs/udev-171-r6 hwdb" to
> > package.use to appease udisk.  Just as before, this looks fishy to me
> > and I would like to get your opinion about how to properly satisfy
> > this seemingly system-required-use-flag.  My gut instinct is that this
> > USE flag requirement should be handled by the Gentoo team in the
> > profile or in some other place that I never look at.
> 
> It's not a question of "system" vs "personal preference"
> 
> It's a question of treating USE flags as global or local in scope. The
> USE variable in make.conf applies globally, and the package.use file
> applies to individual packages. Portage itself couldn't care how you
> view the use of your flags, so you should organize them how you see fit.
> 
> See here:
> 
> $ euses -sf hwdb
> sys-fs/udev:hwdb - read vendor/device string database and add it to
> udev database
> 
> The flag applies to only one package.
> 
> Some USE flags do not have a sane default so there's no choice the devs
> can make on your behalf. Especially convenience features like this one
> - some folk want it, others do not. So the devs delegate the choice to
> you to apply in any way you see fit.

I think Chris' question is more about why he has to manually activate
this USE flag, as it seems to be necessary anyway, in his case.

Looking at my own setup, I have built udev with hwdb, but I do not know
why. There is no hwdb in make.conf or package.use, emerge --info does
not show it, but emerge --info sys-fs/udev does. I'm on version 182-r3.

> > What do you guys think?  Should I append "udev hwdb" to package.use
> > right after my long list of "personal preference customizations"?

Yes. Or use the --autounmask-write option for emerge (may need the new
portage), this will add it automatically, with a comment.

	Wonko

Re: [gentoo-user] Adding a use flag: hwdb

[Chris Stankevitz]

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org> wrote:
> I think Chris' question is more about why he has to manually activate
> this USE flag, as it seems to be necessary anyway, in his case.

Alex,

Yes this is correct.  I see now I was far too wordy in the OP and
thank you for your terse translation!

Typically when I solve a "gentoo system problem" by adding modifying
package.use, I am doing something wrong.  (e.g. ruby_targets_ruby19).

I gather that the udev/hwdb/udisk case is an exception.  The "correct
way" to solve this "gentoo system problem" is to "echo sys-fs/udev
hwdb >> /etc/portage/package.use"

Thank you,

Chris

Re: [gentoo-user] Adding a use flag: hwdb

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 06/11/2012 07:30 PM, Chris Stankevitz wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Alex Schuster <wonko@wonkology.org> wrote:
>> I think Chris' question is more about why he has to manually activate
>> this USE flag, as it seems to be necessary anyway, in his case.
> 
> Alex,
> 
> Yes this is correct.  I see now I was far too wordy in the OP and
> thank you for your terse translation!
> 
> Typically when I solve a "gentoo system problem" by adding modifying
> package.use, I am doing something wrong.  (e.g. ruby_targets_ruby19).
> 
> I gather that the udev/hwdb/udisk case is an exception.  The "correct
> way" to solve this "gentoo system problem" is to "echo sys-fs/udev
> hwdb >> /etc/portage/package.use"

Portage doesn't know what you want to do, so it does the safe thing and
lets you decide. Either,

  a) You want USE="-hwdb", in which case emerging udisks is a mistake.

  b) You want to emerge udisks, in which case USE="-hwdb" is a mistake.

The autounmask feature allows you to make (b) the default if that's what
you want.

The ruby_targets_ruby19 thing is a good example of where you may not
want that behavior by default. Something was screwed up, people noticed
it, and the devs ultimately fixed it. The most-correct thing to do was
nothing (i.e. wait).

Re: [gentoo-user] Adding a use flag: hwdb

[Chris Stankevitz]

Michael,

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Michael Orlitzky <michael@orlitzky.com> wrote:
> Portage doesn't know what you want to do, so it does the safe thing and
> lets you decide. Either,

Somewhat tongue-in-cheek:

I don't know either.  I don't want udev, udisks, hwdb or even know
what they are.  Somebody else wants all that stuff on my system
(gentoo profile or the gentoo handbook author) and I wish that person
would have addressed emerge's concerns WRT use flags.

> The ruby_targets_ruby19 thing is a good example of where you may not
> want that behavior by default. Something was screwed up, people noticed
> it, and the devs ultimately fixed it. The most-correct thing to do was
> nothing (i.e. wait).

I didn't know what RUBY was or why it was on my system or who wanted
it or whether that person wanted ruby_targets_ruby19 or RUBY_TARGETS
or whatever.  Me "waiting" would require 1) that I knew RUBY was a
"temporary problem" that would be fixed in the future [I assumed it
was not... just like hwdb] and 2) that I not perform an emerge
sync/world.

Thank you!

Chris

Re: [gentoo-user] Adding a use flag: hwdb

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 06/12/2012 12:29 AM, Chris Stankevitz wrote:
> Michael,
> 
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Michael Orlitzky <michael@orlitzky.com> wrote:
>> Portage doesn't know what you want to do, so it does the safe thing and
>> lets you decide. Either,
> 
> Somewhat tongue-in-cheek:
> 
> I don't know either.  I don't want udev, udisks, hwdb or even know
> what they are.  Somebody else wants all that stuff on my system
> (gentoo profile or the gentoo handbook author) and I wish that person
> would have addressed emerge's concerns WRT use flags.
> 

I understand, but somewhere along the line, you installed something that
needs udisks, and udisks needs udev with USE="hwdb" set. If you went to
install that thing now (whatever it was), you would be faced with a
choice: enable USE="hwdb", or don't install the thing.

Maybe USE="hwdb" should be default for udev, who knows. Sometimes USE
flags are basically essential like git with USE="perl" and the devs will
make them default. Other times, the flag may do something stupid but
another package requires it anyway. In that case, you don't want the
flag on by default, and so you're still stuck with a choice.

If you *always* want it to just emerge the thing, enable the
autounmask-write feature.


> I didn't know what RUBY was or why it was on my system or who wanted
> it or whether that person wanted ruby_targets_ruby19 or RUBY_TARGETS
> or whatever.  Me "waiting" would require 1) that I knew RUBY was a
> "temporary problem" that would be fixed in the future [I assumed it
> was not... just like hwdb] and 2) that I not perform an emerge
> sync/world.

When I `emerge -puDN world` and something looks like it's going to be a
big pain in the ass, I just ignore it for a few days and `emerge -uN1'
the rest of the packages a few at a time. Often it gets fixed (or
obsoleted) before I have to deal with it.

Re: [gentoo-user] Adding a use flag: hwdb

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:29:48 -0700, Chris Stankevitz wrote:

> > Portage doesn't know what you want to do, so it does the safe thing
> > and lets you decide. Either,  
> 
> I don't know either.  I don't want udev, udisks, hwdb or even know
> what they are.  Somebody else wants all that stuff on my system
> (gentoo profile or the gentoo handbook author) and I wish that person
> would have addressed emerge's concerns WRT use flags.

They have, as far as is possible. udisks needs udev with hwdb, and the
ebuild tells you that when you try to merge it. An ebuild can override
default flag settings for itself, but not for other packages (that would
lead to anarchy) so it tells you what changes are needed and offers to
make them for you.

When hwdb becomes more global in scope, it may make sense to add it to
the desktop profiles as default, but for now it is optional. If you
choose a distro that offers you maximum choice over how your system is
built, you really shouldn't complain about being given choices...


-- 
Neil Bothwick

How is it one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a
whole box to start a campfire?

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[gentoo-user] Re: Adding a use flag: hwdb

[Chris Stankevitz]

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On Tuesday, June 12, 2012, Neil Bothwick wrote:

> you really shouldn't complain about being given choices...
>

I apologize, it was no my intention to complain.  In the future I will make
a decision and not complain.  Thank you to everyone for your assistance!

Chris

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Adding a use flag: hwdb

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 06/12/12 05:45, Chris Stankevitz wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 12, 2012, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> 
>     you really shouldn't complain about being given choices...
> 
> 
> I apologize, it was no my intention to complain.  In the future I will
> make a decision and not complain.  Thank you to everyone for your
> assistance!

No one is forced to reply, so I say complain away =)

Re: [gentoo-user] Adding a use flag: hwdb

[David W Noon]

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On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:57:42 -0700, Chris Stankevitz wrote about
"[gentoo-user] Adding a use flag: hwdb":

[snip]
>A month ago emerge insisted that I enable a USE flag
>"ruby_targets_ruby19" to a bunch of packages on my system.

That is not really coded as a USE flag.

You should put that in /etc/make.conf, thus

RUBY_TARGETS='ruby19'

In fact, on the machine on which I am writing this, this option is coded
as:

RUBY_TARGETS='ruby18 ruby19'

So forget all about /etc/portage/package.use for this.
-- 
Regards,

Dave  [RLU #314465]
======================================================================
dwnoon@ntlworld.com (David W Noon)
======================================================================

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