[gentoo-user] KDEPIM-4.7.3 hits the stable tree ... brrrrr!

[gentoo-user] KDEPIM-4.7.3 hits the stable tree ... brrrrr!

[Mick]

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Thankfully eselect news spells it out and this link makes me thing twice about 
my next steps:

  http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/KDEPIM-4.7_upgrade

Following Alan's disastrous experience where he saw all his messages disappear 
before his eyes I am doubly cautious.

Has anyone tried the migration to 4.7 yet?

Only to make things slightly more complicated ... has anyone tried it who's 
been using sqlite3 like I do, instead of the recommended MySQL?

Any gotchas other than backups of everything recommended in the news article?
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDEPIM-4.7.3 hits the stable tree ... brrrrr!

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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On Wed, Dec 07, 2011 at 07:11:53PM +0000, Mick wrote:
> Thankfully eselect news spells it out and this link makes me thing twice about 
> my next steps:
> 
>   http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/KDEPIM-4.7_upgrade
> 
> Following Alan's disastrous experience where he saw all his messages disappear 
> before his eyes I am doubly cautious.
> 
> Has anyone tried the migration to 4.7 yet?
> 
> Only to make things slightly more complicated ... has anyone tried it who's 
> been using sqlite3 like I do, instead of the recommended MySQL?
> 
> Any gotchas other than backups of everything recommended in the news article?

I installed my first 4.7.x kdepim on 30th of July. I was quite happy with it.
Migration went smooth and I only had to recreate my filters, I guess because
the filters’ target folders were now addressed differently.

kdepimlibs-4.7.3 came on 4th of november. The only thing I remember from
the last weeks is that I was unable to read any mail. All I got in KMail were
revolving cirlces and “Fetching folder content” screens. I didn’t lose any
mail, as far as I can tell. But I was growing tired of Akondi even before that.
So being unable to read anything finally pushed me to mutt. ^^

I don’t have _that_ many mails, at the time of my switching about 13000 or so,
mostly in a few mailing lists. The average dev probably has much more than
that. But even with that number, I had more than 30 seconds of additional full
HDD load after login (once I removed the mail resources, login time until idle
went from 1:05 to ~33 seconds). Plus, all mail files were individually
duplicated in the Akonadi folder... what gives? While I understand the
reasoning behind Akonadi and its potential, I do question the implementation.

I might try it again in 4.8, but right now I’m keeping my hands off.
That’s probably not what you wanted to hear, but I just couldn’t resist.
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
I forbid any use of my email addresses with Facebook services.

Being adult means that nothing is being added upstairs.

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDEPIM-4.7.3 hits the stable tree ... brrrrr!

[Mick]

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On Thursday 08 Dec 2011 05:45:12 Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 07, 2011 at 07:11:53PM +0000, Mick wrote:
> > Thankfully eselect news spells it out and this link makes me thing twice
> > about
> > 
> > my next steps:
> >   http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/KDEPIM-4.7_upgrade
> > 
> > Following Alan's disastrous experience where he saw all his messages
> > disappear before his eyes I am doubly cautious.
> > 
> > Has anyone tried the migration to 4.7 yet?
> > 
> > Only to make things slightly more complicated ... has anyone tried it
> > who's been using sqlite3 like I do, instead of the recommended MySQL?
> > 
> > Any gotchas other than backups of everything recommended in the news
> > article?
> 
> I installed my first 4.7.x kdepim on 30th of July. I was quite happy with
> it. Migration went smooth and I only had to recreate my filters, I guess
> because the filters’ target folders were now addressed differently.
> 
> kdepimlibs-4.7.3 came on 4th of november. The only thing I remember from
> the last weeks is that I was unable to read any mail. All I got in KMail
> were revolving cirlces and “Fetching folder content” screens. I didn’t
> lose any mail, as far as I can tell. But I was growing tired of Akondi
> even before that. So being unable to read anything finally pushed me to
> mutt. ^^

Oh dear!  I better get prepared for learning all the mutt shortcuts then?


> I don’t have _that_ many mails, at the time of my switching about 13000 or
> so, mostly in a few mailing lists. The average dev probably has much more
> than that. But even with that number, I had more than 30 seconds of
> additional full HDD load after login (once I removed the mail resources,
> login time until idle went from 1:05 to ~33 seconds). 

What?!!  Each time you load the desktop/start kmail?!  This can't be right!


> Plus, all mail files
> were individually duplicated in the Akonadi folder... what gives? While I
> understand the reasoning behind Akonadi and its potential, I do question
> the implementation.

I can't even understand the reasoning!  Enforcing a database backend on a 
desktop use case should not be the default solution for a PIM.  Those who want 
it/need it should be given the choice to opt in and complicate their lives, 
bloat their boxen and lose the ability to read their messages ...  o_O

For the rest of us it was working fine as it was.  :p


> I might try it again in 4.8, but right now I’m keeping my hands off.
> That’s probably not what you wanted to hear, but I just couldn’t resist.

Depressing news.  :-(

Thanks for sharing.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDEPIM-4.7.3 hits the stable tree ... brrrrr!

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 06:47:22AM +0000, Mick wrote:

> > > Following Alan's disastrous experience where he saw all his messages
> > > disappear before his eyes I am doubly cautious.
> > > 
> > > Has anyone tried the migration to 4.7 yet?

> > I installed my first 4.7.x kdepim on 30th of July. I was quite happy with
> > it. Migration went smooth and I only had to recreate my filters, I guess
> > because the filters’ target folders were now addressed differently.
> > 
> > kdepimlibs-4.7.3 came on 4th of november. The only thing I remember from
> > the last weeks is that I was unable to read any mail. All I got in KMail
> > were revolving cirlces and “Fetching folder content” screens. I didn’t
> > lose any mail, as far as I can tell. But I was growing tired of Akondi
> > even before that. So being unable to read anything finally pushed me to
> > mutt. ^^
> 
> Oh dear!  I better get prepared for learning all the mutt shortcuts then?

Hihi, well there are tons of alternatives. Despite my keeping distance from GTK
for general use (except for the obvious, such as Gimp and Inkscape),
Thunderbird is very good (which I used before I switched to Linux). Its
handling of data was very stable and efficient, last time I used it. I still
have it installed in my old Windows and keep it up to date.

> > I don’t have _that_ many mails, at the time of my switching about 13000 or
> > so, mostly in a few mailing lists. The average dev probably has much more
> > than that. But even with that number, I had more than 30 seconds of
> > additional full HDD load after login (once I removed the mail resources,
> > login time until idle went from 1:05 to ~33 seconds). 
> 
> What?!!  Each time you load the desktop/start kmail?!  This can't be right!

Well, starting KMail is quite quick. But so it was before Akonadi times,
because KMail used the storage layer natively.

> > Plus, all mail files were individually duplicated in the Akonadi folder...
> > what gives? While I understand the reasoning behind Akonadi and its
> > potential, I do question the implementation.

> I can't even understand the reasoning!  Enforcing a database backend on a 
> desktop use case should not be the default solution for a PIM.

Well when it eventually works as imagined it’s quite nice, I guess. A database
“cache” usually is meant to increase access speed, but they’re not quite there
yet. The benefit is that you can access the same information from one single
data source (like all your mails) from several applications, such as KMail, or
a plasmoid, or... uhm...  well those two. ^^ (how about a web service, or
integration into other PIM apps)

<rumble>
To me it seems we Gentooians don’t care much about social sharing, semantic
desktops or data associations. We know where our files are and what they
contain, we want to control ourselves where our personal information is stored.
We want efficient environments that do what we want, not what the devs imagine
is the future of the desktop.
:D </rumble>
Hehe, that sounds like a political manifesto.
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
I forbid any use of my email addresses with Facebook services.

55% of all oaks are deciduous trees -- still!

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDEPIM-4.7.3 hits the stable tree ... brrrrr!

[Mick]

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On Thursday 08 Dec 2011 14:51:52 Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 06:47:22AM +0000, Mick wrote:
> > > > Following Alan's disastrous experience where he saw all his messages
> > > > disappear before his eyes I am doubly cautious.
> > > > 
> > > > Has anyone tried the migration to 4.7 yet?
> > > 
> > > I installed my first 4.7.x kdepim on 30th of July. I was quite happy
> > > with it. Migration went smooth and I only had to recreate my filters,
> > > I guess because the filters’ target folders were now addressed
> > > differently.
> > > 
> > > kdepimlibs-4.7.3 came on 4th of november. The only thing I remember
> > > from the last weeks is that I was unable to read any mail. All I got
> > > in KMail were revolving cirlces and “Fetching folder content” screens.
> > > I didn’t lose any mail, as far as I can tell. But I was growing tired
> > > of Akondi even before that. So being unable to read anything finally
> > > pushed me to mutt. ^^
> > 
> > Oh dear!  I better get prepared for learning all the mutt shortcuts then?
> 
> Hihi, well there are tons of alternatives. Despite my keeping distance from
> GTK for general use (except for the obvious, such as Gimp and Inkscape),
> Thunderbird is very good (which I used before I switched to Linux). Its
> handling of data was very stable and efficient, last time I used it. I
> still have it installed in my old Windows and keep it up to date.
> 
> > > I don’t have _that_ many mails, at the time of my switching about 13000
> > > or so, mostly in a few mailing lists. The average dev probably has
> > > much more than that. But even with that number, I had more than 30
> > > seconds of additional full HDD load after login (once I removed the
> > > mail resources, login time until idle went from 1:05 to ~33 seconds).
> > 
> > What?!!  Each time you load the desktop/start kmail?!  This can't be
> > right!
> 
> Well, starting KMail is quite quick. But so it was before Akonadi times,
> because KMail used the storage layer natively.
> 
> > > Plus, all mail files were individually duplicated in the Akonadi
> > > folder... what gives? While I understand the reasoning behind Akonadi
> > > and its potential, I do question the implementation.
> > 
> > I can't even understand the reasoning!  Enforcing a database backend on a
> > desktop use case should not be the default solution for a PIM.
> 
> Well when it eventually works as imagined it’s quite nice, I guess. A
> database “cache” usually is meant to increase access speed, but they’re
> not quite there yet. The benefit is that you can access the same
> information from one single data source (like all your mails) from several
> applications, such as KMail, or a plasmoid, or... uhm...  well those two.
> ^^ (how about a web service, or integration into other PIM apps)
> 
> <rumble>
> To me it seems we Gentooians don’t care much about social sharing, semantic
> desktops or data associations. We know where our files are and what they
> contain, we want to control ourselves where our personal information is
> stored. We want efficient environments that do what we want, not what the
> devs imagine is the future of the desktop.
> 
> :D </rumble>
> 
> Hehe, that sounds like a political manifesto.

I don't care if it is - I would definitely vote for it!  :p

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDEPIM-4.7.3 hits the stable tree ... brrrrr!

[Dương "Yang" ヤン Hà Nguyễn]

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 2:11 AM, Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thankfully eselect news spells it out and this link makes me thing twice about
> my next steps:
>
>  http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/KDEPIM-4.7_upgrade
>
> Following Alan's disastrous experience where he saw all his messages disappear
> before his eyes I am doubly cautious.
>
> Has anyone tried the migration to 4.7 yet?
>
> Only to make things slightly more complicated ... has anyone tried it who's
> been using sqlite3 like I do, instead of the recommended MySQL?
>
> Any gotchas other than backups of everything recommended in the news article?
>

Hi,

In the KDEPIM full stack, I use only Kopete.  Today I upgraded both
kdepimlibs and kopete to 4.7.3.  After the upgrading, Kwallet did not
work properly (it displayed a totally blank window without any
"wallets").  I started Kopete and immediately I encountered the error
message:

   kopete(xxx) couldn't create slave: Unknown protocol 'file'

Of course Kopete did not work with Kwallet, so I had to type my
password manually.  After typing the password, nothing happened in the
Kopete window, and the error message I got from the terminal was

   kopete(xxx) couldn't create slave: Unknown protocol 'https'

At first I thought there are some broken packages, but revdep-rebuild
didn't help.  I rebuilt kdepimlibs, Kwallet, and Kopete manually with
emerge, didn't help either.  I read the news (from eselect) again,
found the wiki page, followed the direction althought I didn't use
KMail or any other piece of software from the KDEPIM stack, it didn't
work either.  Eventually, I masked the packages (mentioned in the
news) and downgraded kdepimlibs and Kopete to 4.6.3, and everything
worked again!

Just to share my short story today.  And I think KDEPIM should *not*
be marked as stable at the moment.

Kindest regards,
Dương "Yang"
-- 
Dương "Yang" ヤン Hà Nguyễn ("Nguyễn Hà Dương" in Vietnamese, 「グエンヤン」 in Japanese)
Web log: http://cmpitg.wordpress.com/
"Life is a hack"

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT/C/ED/L d++ s-:-(:) !a C+++(++++) ULU++++>$ P-- L+++>$ E+++
W++>+++ N+ o+ K w--- O- M@ V- PS+ PE++ Y+>++ PGP++ t+ 5 X+ R-
tv+ b+++ DI+++ D++ G+++ e* h* r* y-
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

Re: [gentoo-user] KDEPIM-4.7.3 hits the stable tree ... brrrrr!

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 11:26:27PM +0700, Dương "Yang" ヤン Hà Nguyễn wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 2:11 AM, Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> In the KDEPIM full stack, I use only Kopete.  Today I upgraded both
> kdepimlibs and kopete to 4.7.3.  After the upgrading, Kwallet did not
> work properly (it displayed a totally blank window without any
> "wallets").  I started Kopete and immediately I encountered the error
> message:

That reminds me that I could put an addendum to my mail:
I’m also having problems with Kopete since the upgrade 4.7.2→4.7.3. Sometimes
it doesn’t fully start; the window comes up, but without account indicators in
the status bar. And while I still had my mails set up with Akonadi, I was
regularly asked for the password, even though it was stored in the wallet.
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
I forbid any use of my email addresses with Facebook services.

A computer only crashes if your haven’t saved your text for a long time.

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Re: [gentoo-user] KDEPIM-4.7.3 hits the stable tree ... brrrrr!

[Daniel D Jones]

On Thursday, December 08, 2011 11:26:27 Dương "Yang" ヤン Hà Nguyễn wrote:
> Just to share my short story today.  And I think KDEPIM should *not*
> be marked as stable at the moment.

I think if they work really hard for the next three or four months they might 
be able to get it into a state where it could be considered alpha quality.

-- 
"Just the omission of Jane Austen's books alone would make a fairly good 
library out of a library that hadn't a book in it." - Mark Twain

Re: [gentoo-user] KDEPIM-4.7.3 hits the stable tree ... brrrrr!

[Indi]

On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 09:00:02PM +0100, Mick wrote:
> On Thursday 08 Dec 2011 14:51:52 Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 06:47:22AM +0000, Mick wrote:
> > 
> > <rumble>
> > To me it seems we Gentooians don’t care much about social sharing, semantic
> > desktops or data associations. We know where our files are and what they
> > contain, we want to control ourselves where our personal information is
> > stored. We want efficient environments that do what we want, not what the
> > devs imagine is the future of the desktop.
> > 
> > :D </rumble>
> > 
> > Hehe, that sounds like a political manifesto.
> 
> I don't care if it is - I would definitely vote for it!  :p
> 

Me too. In fact -- as someone who avoids the DEs, PIMs, and even browser 
password storage -- you could say I recast that vote everyday 
Mutt's more than good enough for eveything but my mom's flouncy, cutesy 
emails and for those there's claws-mail with its plugins. :)

-- 
caveat utilitor
♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤