From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1SZQbU-0001iT-Cn for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 29 May 2012 17:53:09 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 87CAFE07AF; Tue, 29 May 2012 17:52:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ob0-f181.google.com (mail-ob0-f181.google.com [209.85.214.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D38E07A3 for ; Tue, 29 May 2012 17:51:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbuo19 with SMTP id uo19so8588990obb.40 for ; Tue, 29 May 2012 10:51:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OkEeIImf9RncxsKLxwe5sUVgFh4QSsy0FykGKbjnbLo=; b=PusJdBciIIrFKjs1VWzcKmsRJ5qoj/ca4HaI13x5DpJ7i1gYNBD0vD/Rc9UkdnNs8H vjG6dRphXH1FSIzYgdBdRoDJ+dZJpWgRgwsq3uc8OQuShnQRXs30rYfHdchnKE7qleMJ wTYJ9ykZOIIQtilJO0k5zqNLJFPfd3zj7Jt5MDgdMumLIrVzXRq3SC0OF/cqC+cNg0m+ lXNtfxQXYlc63BoR7+PuCShYy5dfQtPrBTPKVY2rFZ/qqPhDt5Zt7E9FB+aNps4fEvZk 1RPCaAh0mBnB+9uE03MB78SNnqL00zlTWAnVQXk1CLEx+Vo6J7WKD+2H/gZnphsNmS2H 17+Q== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.45.72 with SMTP id k8mr12214841obm.51.1338313873291; Tue, 29 May 2012 10:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.113.3 with HTTP; Tue, 29 May 2012 10:51:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120529140826.78bf2c27@khamul.example.com> References: <4FC0C217.6050302@binarywings.net> <4FC1EAFD.6010504@binarywings.net> <20120527231852.186a968f@khamul.example.com> <20120528225029.5e9181bd@khamul.example.com> <20120529140826.78bf2c27@khamul.example.com> Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 10:51:13 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} hire a programmer or company? From: Grant To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 20718913-02e8-49ca-87fc-325a00232840 X-Archives-Hash: 4a7d9a34ef80fa403ee2cf5a5f236d3f > Everything I know about dealing with technical people is from the > school of hard knocks :-) And class is definitely in session! Thanks to all for your guidance with t= his. > I don't think it's something that can be taught or > properly described adequately. But there are some obvious concepts: > > Programmers are essentially not too different from any other type of > technical people, and you are already very familiar with those just by > reading gentoo-user. All that stuff we do here wrt top-posting, html > mail, udev and pulseaudio developers having strange ideas and > (being perceived to be) ramming it down people's throats - all that > stuff applies. > > I don't know how you personally deal with such things but whatever you > find works is probably good enough. > > Techies don't like being second-guessed and told what to do when they > are perfectly capable of doing the job properly. This is just a normal > human reaction really and is always solved by simple communication. You > always have to get to know people first, to get a grip on their > personality, and then find out how to successfully interact with them. > If you are married, consider what it took to learn how to interact with > your wife smoothly :-) > >> Could you tell me really briefly what a manager *should* do? > > Ouch. That's another encyclopedia-length answer :-) > > I'll give you a short oblique answer that seems to work for me: > > Managers do not lead, they serve. They are not there to call the shots, g= et covered in glory, > be seen as the best of the best or issue decrees. I've been fortunate to > have had a few good managers in my working life and they all seemed to > instinctively do the same very important thing: make it possible for me > to do my job. > > They would deal with finance issues, they would help find out where new > hardware was in the shipping process, they would be a buffer between me > and the customer (or between me and the annoying executive). They would > publicly cover me in glory when things worked out well and cover my ass > when they didn't. And all too often they would clam me down when I went > off on one of my rants. The point is, the manager took care of > everything on the project except the part about being a programmer :-) > > Good managers are very good at observing. They don't impose themselves > on the job at hand, they watch it and see where things are going great > and where things can be improved. They are also patient and only > try to improve one thing at a time, getting that thing right then move > onto the next thing. > > My current manager is great, we're both a similar > age (mid 40s), and we have an understanding - I'm good at my job and > he's good at his. It took a while for both of us to recognize this and > build that trust but I think we got it right eventually. The key thing > was to communicate to the other guy and be honest and listen. In the > beginning there was some "alpha-male" posturing going on and we had to > drop that somewhat quickly :-) > > He's also particular in finding out what the whole team thinks about > things, so really listens to our input. > > That's what I find works for me, but unlike computers I can't put it > down in step-by-step fashion that will give a certain result. > >> >> I think I'll try to manage a single programmer working few hours and >> see how it goes. =A0My asking stupid questions is due to my lack of >> experience and there's only one way to fix that. > > Sounds to me like you already grasp the essentials :-) > > Good luck with the project. > > Oh , one last thing: despite all appearances to the contrary, most > people out there can be trusted to do the right thing as far as they > are able, and do want to do a good job. Don't let occasional lapses > cloud your view of this. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, we all must > learn to be tolerant when it happens. Sorry for the scrolling but that stuff just can't be snipped. Regarding proposals, schedules, roadmaps, milestones.... I've got a list of a million changes to make to my website's front-end and back-end. There is a very specific way I want things to work, so everything is broken down to a granular "task" level. In the old days I would just dig in and start grinding away on things, but I'm ready to pass that duty on to a real programmer and I can't imagine that it's productive to have him submit a proposal, set up a schedule, generate a roadmap, and create milestones for every little thing that needs to be done. Can I hire one guy and give him one task at a time and see how it goes without any of that stuff? - Grant