From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1QerFX-00043h-4E for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 16:16:23 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3CCBD21C02B; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 16:14:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ey0-f181.google.com (mail-ey0-f181.google.com [209.85.215.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D028021C02B for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 16:14:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eyh5 with SMTP id 5so419545eyh.40 for ; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 09:14:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VlCa4WecN4hgvBdgTTttQg/0YzWUvWGrLJNb8eCmows=; b=rovITgy1Ho/cxW6oNS/5OxEZNrGRVusIGQZs7bSjjrhXARR2sbp/tDS4+9Nv7fqETw 0q8wJgJEZEGvlql6+ZpOSKCF1hzWSCpHqvv8oHMHZWEpw2lp7NbF0h2nCMm5YPql+uP5 B5M+Ue1rtY4+vVM5ODthixg6FR9f6TYFVbBPI= Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.47.13 with SMTP id s13mr306550eeb.214.1310055285928; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 09:14:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.97.68 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 09:14:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110707093134.GB2441@nicolas-desktop> References: <20110704203953.GB14654@vidovic> <20110707093134.GB2441@nicolas-desktop> Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 09:14:45 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Managing multiple Gentoo systems From: Grant To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: 96b1a82604814e2bf4b82e678784f3e3 >> >> After a frustrating experience with a Linksys WRT54GL, I've decided t= o >> >> stick with Gentoo routers. =A0This increases the number of Gentoo >> >> systems I'm responsible for and they're nearing double-digits. =A0Wha= t >> >> can be done to make the management of multiple Gentoo systems easier? >> >> I think identical hardware in each system would help a lot but I'm no= t >> >> sure that's practical. =A0I need to put together a bunch of new >> >> workstations and I'm thinking some sort of server/client arrangement >> >> with the only Gentoo install being on the server could be appropriate= . >> > >> > I maintain multiple Gentoo we mostly use as KVM hosts systems (and >> > coming embedded routers). As KVM hosts, some of them are very sensible= . >> > Due to the contracts to our customers, I have to do with various updat= e >> > strategies on top of various hardware. >> >> Thanks to everyone for some very juicy tidbits. =A0I'm rearranging my >> thinking on all of this. =A0I think the key for me may be to combine >> systems with separate functions in the same physical location into a >> single system. =A0Does the KVM thing work well? > > KVM itself works very well here, even with advanced features such as KSM > pages sharing. > > The difficulties come with Microsoft products for both good integration > and perfomance (I would recommend RAW format, iSCSI or plain physical > partition instead of qcow2, for example). That beeing said, I finally > have all working well for XP, NT2003 and 2008 servers. > > I use libvirt on top of KVM which is in the way to become very good AFA > you don't rely on libvirt's API which tend to move a lot. > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Running a bunch of >> workstations as nothing more than wireless KVM setups on the same >> system? =A0I should be able to cut my Gentoo systems down to just a few. >> =A0Basically one at each physical location. > > I would be much sceptical for both workstations and wireless guests than > for servers: > > 1) For workstations, things are currently changing with the very recent > and "not much usable with Gentoo, yet" spice software. I expect a lot of > improvments in the coming months for this use case. I would say it's not > ready for production, yet. > > 2) About wireless virtualization it's highly depending on what you aim > to do, especially if you intend to use the PCI passthrough feature to > give your wireless card to a guest. For this to work, you MUST have your > hardware (CPU, motherboard and PCI card) VT-d compatible which is > currently NOT a piece of cake, today. It relies on industry and > manufacturers moving not as fast as software. I would expect more widely > VT-d cards in the coming _years_. > > Now, if you intend to use the wireless card from you hosts and share > networks using bridge utilities it _MAY_ be OK: Linux bridging does not > always work with all wireless cards (see http://tinyurl.com/ylcutwv for > more information). > > > In a more general approach, when I hear "routers" and "wireless" I'm > more thinking _embedded_. KVM/qemu would only help you to build your > target systems. > > > For embedded (or tiny, at least) systems, I would not use LXC. > > The drawback with Gentoo is that the current official uclibc stage3 for > embedded/tiny systems is obsolete and marked as experimental. In facts, > it's very _hard_ if not impossible to use it these days. Making your own > cross-compilation environment is not a piece of cake (too), even with > dedicated tools such as crossdev. This topic would ask its own book. > So, if you want to try Gentoo embedded save your time by working on > unofficial stage3. > > -- > Nicolas Sebrecht I think I'm guilty of assumption regarding your original reference to KVM. I assumed you mean keyboard-video-mouse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KVM_switch but now I think you meant Kernel-based Virtual Machine: http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Main_Page And now that I look more closely at KVM switches, it looks like they provide a method of controlling multiple computers via a single keyboard, monitor, and mouse. I need sort of the inverse. I'd like to control a single Gentoo computer via multiple sets of keyboards, monitors, and mice simultaneously. It would basically be a way to have the functionality of multiple workstations but the administration hassle of only a single system. Wireless communication between the computer and each keyboard-monitor-mouse would be most convenient, but that may not be possible so wired would be fine. Does something like this exist? - Grant