From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B5A31381F3 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 07:36:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ABEAFE0B6D; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 07:35:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qa0-f52.google.com (mail-qa0-f52.google.com [209.85.216.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C0A7E07F0 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 07:35:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id hv16so166294qab.18 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:35:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=6T3H373vazcXBR0125RiVEoHCWxX0Ns1vmcv6iBVsnY=; b=CPQobsyxd/0eS2UylxvqKmFlA/vOtvupyz7Qv7ygSaASkCanjCvFqHibvGmuSsx80M Vc5Vbnkja7LQeJS/VReMvw3Di8mRDwbfUWBCDlzMMoxfAMT4lpHDBpa5r9tZxoxqaArg 4WciEeffXtpuNsPUqfbh4hKoZIO2IJ3NSRy8Cbq7UFdxs3flZgFtRD6Mb/kKJABtZncx xoHPJLwb4X1qJQwvvZ9BFMzqsY2rqLlFoC4FA6Yg62D4alQELeiiCeum4uAEOeRFvevD xpSiiYMUtXlWiPPz2f6stIP30MfkWz/04BOe7XO6/INiH6DlGppF2NhuO09BzR6mPQaa 4iWQ== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.49.41.41 with SMTP id c9mr15940367qel.19.1374219352739; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Sender: sayusi.ando@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.127.74 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:35:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130717124931.GM3387@server> References: <51E43EDE.3090905@gmail.com> <20130716182003.GH3387@server> <20130717103545.303eb040@hactar.digimed.co.uk> <20130717124931.GM3387@server> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 09:35:52 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: srvRiDiDdJ-otKQXrqZkIux7E1U Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and NetworkManager From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOhcyBDc8Ohbnlp?= To: gentoo-user Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: f27ba36f-d936-4475-9a3b-d162ed9e2174 X-Archives-Hash: 7fc01a1b0a55dbc8e9a55a37064ad2ee On 17 July 2013 14:49, Bruce Hill wrote: > On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 01:39:36PM +0200, Andr=C3=A1s Cs=C3=A1nyi wrote: >> On 17 July 2013 11:35, Neil Bothwick wrote: >> > On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:04:12 +0200, Andr=C3=A1s Cs=C3=A1nyi wrote: >> > >> >> Ok. How is possible to get the post-install message of an ebuild >> >> without re-emerge the package neither opening the log file? The man >> >> page of emerge cannot say anything about it. >> > >> > Read the ebuild. >> >> I don't think this is a friendly solution in 2013. > > What would _you_ consider friendly? Gentoo is a source based Linux > distribution. That means _all_ your software is built from source; howeve= r, it > is _your_ responsibility to customize this software to make it work best = for > your computer's hardware, and your software usage. Gentoo is _not_ a bina= ry > distribution where every package has been built for the lowest common > denominator of computer, so that it works on almost anyone's computer jus= t by > clicking the Install button, or some such {easy,friendly} solution. When I sad that to read the ebuild is not user friendly I thought of that it should be a better solution to get post install message than open the ebuild and read it. The elogv is fine for me. The definition of something is user friendly has many layers in my head and it up to the role I "play". When we speak about gentoo and I configure my system than I play *nix system administrator like role where I have to deal my task using terminal. However, the fact that I use terminal to achieve what I want does not exclude there are usable tools to get information easily and/or feasible. The other role I play when I use my system as a user or I develop my java stuff or I want watch a movie. Then I really don't want to deal with terminal except maven. I want the click-way user experience. The good is that gentoo is able to give me both experience. It is not smarter than it is expected - like Windows or Ubuntu -, but not a rock. I mean the portage system and tools give lot of help to "heal" the system if I messed up something. > If you were to install software on another Linux distribution, for which = there > was no package prebuilt for that package manager, you would basically: > > download source > untar source > cd source-directory > ./configure -help (and read the options) > write your own build script with your options > make > make install > (or whatever method for that software and distro) > > You would also be responsible for reading to find out where to install th= e > software, what dependencies it requires, what permissions and groups shou= ld be > used, etc. > > Gentoo has provided all this for you, but you must learn The Gentoo Way (= TM) > in order to Make It Work (TM). You seem to be lacking a proper understand= ing > in that area. No, I don't. Or I don't think so. Rather I was lazy to do it or I missed the attitude of my question. I have been using Gentoo since 2006 and I love it. Unfortunately, I moved toward programming part of IT from system administrating. > If you installed Gentoo using the Gentoo Handbook (why would you not?), t= hen > you should have read: 12. Where to go from here? And there you would read= this > sentence: You should definitely take a look at the next part of the Gento= o > Handbook entitled Working with Gentoo which explains how to keep your sof= tware > up to date, how to install more software, what USE flags are, how the Gen= too > init system works, etc. > > There is a lot of information there, and a lot to learn. But I find that > _most_ people _stop_ reading the Handbook at that point, and begin their > learning by trial and error. That is acceptable, even friendly, but it mi= ght > take you _much_longer_ to get that information than simply reading the bo= ok. You are absolutely right! I stopped to reading the handbook there and I'm learning the system the way you described. It is my responsibility. I read the mailing list to pick up knowledge about different area of the whole. > If you hang out in #gentoo on FreeNode you will be able to learn a _lot_ = of > what you read on this mailing list in a much shorter time. In fact, you c= an > log the channel, and use that as another option to _search_ for support > answers. Often I will issue: > grep wicd irclogs/#gentoo.log > and maybe: > grep postinst irclogs/#gentoo.log > to find some answers. Then maybe that search will lead me to issue: > awk '/iamben/ && /postinst/ { print }' irclogs/#gentoo.log > because my previous search revealed that iamben gave a lot of answers > concerning postinst and people got their question answered. > > Last but not least, there are search engines, such as Google. Just open y= our > web browser to http://wwww.google.com and type "post-install message of a= n > ebuild" and see if any of the results answers your question. The first hi= t for > me was "Gentoo Development Guide: Messages", which for me was simple and = easy > to read, but might not be so for you if you have no experience reading/wr= iting > ebuilds. The second hit was "Gentoo Forums :: View topic - How to read em= erge > messages? (I ..." which gave 'friendly' answers to your question. (Which = you > already got on this list, also.) I searched for something like this. But, the problem was that I was not able to create the question. It was due to that I did not know the expression which describe what I want. On the other hand, sometimes I have difficulties in English. If you read my email where I asked about the post-install message you can see that I use this word. But I picked up from a previous letter in this thread. The lack of knowledge, I mean not knowing the proper expression, may come that I did not read further the handbook. :) > Gentoo is not considered a "user friendly" distro in 2013 by many people.= The > primary reason is that _most_ people have been trained to "point and clic= k" > but never _read_ anything. Those are the people for whom Mark Shuttlewort= h > designed Ubuntu Linux. I agree. > Gentoo wasn't designed for the "point and click" crowd. Read > http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml to get a better idea of Gentoo's > intended audience. -- -- Csanyi Andras (Sayusi Ando) -- http://sayusi.hu -- http://facebook.com/andras.csanyi -- ""Trust in God and keep your gunpowder dry!" - Cromwell