From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61830158020 for ; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 03:30:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 09DCFE08C4; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 03:29:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lf1-x12b.google.com (mail-lf1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A41F0E0827 for ; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 03:29:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lf1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id c1so9123750lfi.7 for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2022 19:29:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=KV7BQLARtEWHko5C3IJarAW3PMTeYh5kIO5sVCZOav4=; b=S1M6SZ8lm5VFFTiM7ZAdZUq1EEVdr3L1H/eGTjPH8jso5TBxXUWMxGmbBeJh4CSXpf Fkpf4CBZ8BMJDQwq5X2a0XeLH4xXa+NtOpYlT328Bw+OxA8vDLJa+PnCU4x+GuOHCXEQ igrz20948AaaFyTHpcR70GMN3ArooDmMOgvwa68/KhcLh4lEJn8ZZzHJojjemF6G7zBT DsZnoizspJoX3DqQ/xPAbaWXvToCZm7YTiRrJKveLK7OATzaJemzcAcvHW8+Xmj00MOg dpVgP17+Adqxp7fFhibpX7sE6sqnZOKtJ9osgHukEE11fuEDtFQA3PjNVlatTvBfPjBu fvSg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=KV7BQLARtEWHko5C3IJarAW3PMTeYh5kIO5sVCZOav4=; b=zC9oClvufKDzEr67hMB0QIfMZO0zKOlEezYVZ5FsC7iY+P5jCh9K8eHbnDQXsIAp8C exJLSGkctpdT4MDlJy3FWs2dPkSYgaZ592shjm2keHVLckI4ZBD9D6/20qHPL39whwA1 1zU29esrSAQ2cIbCm/UNaiPHyEsrcuRIsyzWAF/AKO5gKGkquGPkQrRtXmVBub2P3G+W w7jn8PJCabVDzNhASmmAZsL+GTuWCyQUsYgzwtmE35ixIHr04J8YXx+n2gfV+8hM+Hfy nxKi/PFWR8AUUhDdXk9E0VlzVLHUPK5ADbwWnBhN5OQTYXVgf38KoYQ155/DtCtuKtVg p8aw== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pl5qRxGjtrHdVL2BqLXOPq6V+6wF5DWYcsMxLPULAXqkK2V56I1 aMwHvnhOgq/sSbW6QrGS2AcKVx/xhjaMYLFDRqYQaoQLdZc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf72T95Lsz7x1nI+vi9pATFosT9kxzy42Am1NDQH2/JKXwMUbC+anHPeMMIiGs1nc/OVfQtYAI9Ufwfa75dgs24= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:3eb:b0:4b5:62fc:d85f with SMTP id n11-20020a05651203eb00b004b562fcd85fmr8460388lfq.284.1671334194490; Sat, 17 Dec 2022 19:29:54 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9407e524-2226-6ba9-dd7f-bac635d083e3@gmail.com> <10b30d8a-5c5d-a80a-e659-b5624e2848e4@gmail.com> <78c2c83f-fdd8-5c9b-3ac3-7c22bc4b5d64@gmail.com> <0a10c428-94f1-6112-4d88-c97143f9564d@gmail.com> <8889cc05-fcc5-2084-1336-0340357643d4@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8889cc05-fcc5-2084-1336-0340357643d4@gmail.com> From: David Rosenbaum Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2022 17:56:31 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f6b2ce05f011d049" X-Archives-Salt: 18646400-3c52-4b91-b478-926094b310e0 X-Archives-Hash: 2f7c1cab788e9cf804df368e03b1f6dd --000000000000f6b2ce05f011d049 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dave On Sat, Dec 17, 2022, 11:42 AM Dale wrote: > Mark Knecht wrote: > > > > On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dale wrote: > > > > Mark Knecht wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:50 PM Dale wrote: > > > > > I > > > wonder, could one install the LVM stuff and use that? That would be > > > interesting. I wonder if there is a NAS software that uses LVM > > > instead. Interesting thought. I just may go bug google on that one. > o_O > > > > Maybe I'm missing the point but why would you want LVM on a > > storage pool? If I'm doing backups I just want space. I let TrueNas > > put it on disk and give it back if asked. Why put another layer > > of indirection? > > > > If you're intending to use it as simple NAS - i.e. - the only copy > > of some data on your network - then possibly LVM might > > be interesting, but then you need a second TrueNAS box > > to back that up. NAS as a mountable data location is > > different than NAS doing backups which is what I thought > > this thread was about. What am I not remembering? > > > > - Mark > > > > > > It's more about me being more used to using LVM. Also, more used to > Linux as well. BSD is not something I have much experience with and until > recently, none with ZFS. Even the little experience I have with BSD was > well over a decade ago, maybe two decades ago. I barely remember it really. > > > > By replacing ZFS with LVM, I'm working with something I'm familiar with > and less likely to mess up things. Things get messed up enough without > adding more confusion. ;-) > > > > Dale > > > > :-) :-) > > Hummm...I don't know Dale, I don't know... ZFS is a file system. > LVM is an abstraction on top (or underneath?) of a file system. > My understanding of LVM is that it frees you from hard decisions > on partition sizes, not that it replaces ZFS or ext3/4/5. > > > That is true. Thing is, I've learned how to manage LVM even with > encrypted data. I've also learned how to expand storage without losing > data or getting confused about what I'm doing. To me, using LVM is pretty > easy given the notes I have for the tasks I do most often. > > > You may or may not know this but TrueNAS is available as a > Linux version: > > https://www.truenas.com/blog/first-release-of-truenas-on-linux/ > > I don't recommend it. It's new. Let someone else figure it out. However > it might be more to your liking, and because it's Linux you'd be more > comfortable messing it up. ;0- > > WRT you I recommend that you try living in NGL for a while. Possibly > you are just a bit too indoctrinated in the religion of building packages > 30-50 times a year believing (without hard data) that it provides value. > Instead you might just consider relaxing and letting the system > take care of itself. In the last year I've only updated my TrueNAS box > twice that I can remember. > > On the other hand if system tweaking is what brings you joy then > Que Sera Sera ..... > > Good luck, > Mark > > > > It's not that I want to compile things, it's that I want to use things I'm > already really familiar with. If I bought a Raspberry Pi and built a NAS > with it, I don't care if I compile the software on it or not as long as it > has the software I need or I can install what I need. From what I've read, > compiling on a Raspberry isn't much fun. It's very time consuming. Having > a OS, binary one at that, that is Linux based is a big plus. I can run > LVM, cryptsetup and such in likely every Linux distro out there and get the > same result as on my Gentoo box. Switching to BSD, using ZFS, means I have > to learn a whole new set of tools and methods. I had enough fun learning > LVM and I don't think LVM is going to die anytime soon. It should be > around for the foreseeable future. As it is, even now, I still don't get > how ZFS works. I just followed a guide to get it working, sort of. It's > still not encrypted. Figuring that out is next. That should be fun. > > My network card is out for delivery. A few days late but better than > never I guess. I'll see if the drivers needed for it are available as > modules or not. I suspect they are tho based on info in this thread. > > Dale > > :-) :-) > --000000000000f6b2ce05f011d049 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Dave

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022, 11:42 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Mark Knecht wrote:
=20 =20


On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com= > wrote:
>
> Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:50 PM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.co= m> wrote:
>
> > I
> > wonder, could one install the LVM stuff and use that?=C2= =A0 That would be
> > interesting.=C2=A0 I wonder if there is a NAS software th= at uses LVM
> > instead.=C2=A0 Interesting thought.=C2=A0 I just may go b= ug google on that one. =C2=A0o_O
>
> Maybe I'm missing the point but why would you want LVM on = a
> storage pool? If I'm doing backups I just want space. I le= t TrueNas
> put it on disk and give it back if asked. Why put another layer
> of indirection?
>
> If you're intending to use it as simple NAS - i.e. - the only copy
> of some data on your network - then possibly LVM might
> be interesting, but then you need a second TrueNAS box
> to back that up. NAS as a mountable data location is
> different than NAS doing backups which is what I thought
> this thread was about. What am I not remembering?
>
> - Mark
>
>
> It's more about me being more used to using LVM.=C2=A0 Als= o, more used to Linux as well.=C2=A0 BSD is not something I have much experience with and until recently, none with ZFS.=C2=A0 Even the little experience I have with BSD was well over a decade ago, maybe two decades ago.=C2=A0 I barely remember it really.
>
> By replacing ZFS with LVM, I'm working with something I= 9;m familiar with and less likely to mess up things.=C2=A0 Things get messed up enough without adding more confusion. =C2=A0;-)
>
> Dale
>
> :-) =C2=A0:-)

Hummm...I don't know Dale, I don't know... ZFS is a fi= le system.
LVM is an abstraction on top (or underneath?) of a file system.
My understanding of LVM is that it frees you from hard decisions
on partition sizes, not that it replaces ZFS or ext3/4/5.


That is true.=C2=A0 Thing is, I've learned how to manage LVM even w= ith encrypted data.=C2=A0 I've also learned how to expand storage witho= ut losing data or getting confused about what I'm doing.=C2=A0 To me, = using LVM is pretty easy given the notes I have for the tasks I do most often.=C2=A0


You may or may not know this but TrueNAS is available as a=C2= =A0
Linux version:


I don't recommend it. It's new. Let someone else figur= e it out. However
it might be more to your liking, and because it's Linux you'd be more
comfortable messing it up. ;0-

WRT you I recommend that you try living in NGL for a while. Possibly=C2=A0
you are just a bit too indoctrinated in the religion of building packages=C2=A0
30-50 times a year believing (without hard data) that it provides value.=C2=A0
Instead you might just consider relaxing and letting the system=C2=A0
take care of itself. In the last year I've only updated my TrueNAS box
twice that I can remember.

On the other hand if system tweaking is what brings you joy then
Que Sera Sera .....

Good luck,
Mark


It's not that I want to compile things, it's that I want to use things I'm already really familiar with.=C2=A0 If I bought a Raspbe= rry Pi and built a NAS with it, I don't care if I compile the software on it or not as long as it has the software I need or I can install what I need.=C2=A0 From what I've read, compiling on a Raspberry is= n't much fun.=C2=A0 It's very time consuming. Having a OS, binary one a= t that, that is Linux based is a big plus.=C2=A0 I can run LVM, cryptsetu= p and such in likely every Linux distro out there and get the same result as on my Gentoo box.=C2=A0 Switching to BSD, using ZFS, means I have to learn a whole new set of tools and methods.=C2=A0 I had enough fun learning LVM and I don't think LVM is going to die anytime soon.=C2=A0 It should be around for the foreseeable future.=C2=A0 As it= is, even now, I still don't get how ZFS works.=C2=A0 I just followed a = guide to get it working, sort of.=C2=A0 It's still not encrypted.=C2=A0 F= iguring that out is next.=C2=A0 That should be fun.=C2=A0

My network card is out for delivery.=C2=A0 A few days late but better than never I guess.=C2=A0 I'll see if the drivers needed for it are available as modules or not.=C2=A0 I suspect they are tho based on info in this thread.=C2=A0

Dale

:-)=C2=A0 :-)=C2=A0
--000000000000f6b2ce05f011d049--