From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Rhkh6-0005R2-Gh for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 16:25:04 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 76D5F21C281; Mon, 2 Jan 2012 16:24:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ww0-f53.google.com (mail-ww0-f53.google.com [74.125.82.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25D0721C273 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 2012 16:22:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds1 with SMTP id ds1so24484689wgb.10 for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 08:22:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PP68Uoz4GTbo6f9mQ1xrg2Spgawkiosk+7ULG1+siZo=; b=VLdjMQbd+7omMWxnWN5TfHieWS3K7kFC2asy/AurZX8TbNv5Lz/soiLjZ9SlfNeYas I6LhCjaJLMpA/YSpeuz4L9z4rouJgisMgmfEv5jecDxik+WyReYTKkGH5pcIIfJEXEqw FpUF60aexny1gl7XwCGE2IN0ahgYhU0bQqcH4= Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.208.81 with SMTP id gb17mr48506296wbb.26.1325521348362; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 08:22:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.160.73 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jan 2012 08:22:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4F01D6A2.9000002@orlitzky.com> References: <4F00D521.1030702@orlitzky.com> <4F00DA99.8050502@orlitzky.com> <4F00DEC5.5090500@gmail.com> <4F00E741.6050002@orlitzky.com> <4F01CED2.5090806@libertytrek.org> <4F01D6A2.9000002@orlitzky.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 08:22:28 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --update behavior From: Mark Knecht To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: cdf3f36d-0f55-4632-a711-428d907e6105 X-Archives-Hash: 81a34a40c23df9a094e3e29f9a59de8a On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 8:09 AM, Michael Orlitzky wro= te: > On 01/02/2012 11:01 AM, Mark Knecht wrote: >> >> >> I tell by knowing which files I want in @world. Everything in world >> should be a package __I__ specifically want to use. Everything in >> world (on my machines anyway) is something: >> >> 1) =C2=A0I'd call from the command line >> 2) Need to write a little software myself, most specifically a library >> 3) Aid in displaying things, like font packages >> 4) Something required by Gentoo that I don't totally understand, like >> a virtual package. >> >> I just look through every so often and make sure everything seems to >> meet those sorts of requirements. When I find a library or something >> else then: >> >> 1) I make sure I'm clean with emerge -DuN @world AND emerge -p --depclea= n >> 2) I'll delete the questionable item >> 3) I'll see what happens with the two commands in #1 >> >> To me it's pretty straight forward, but I'm also not bothered at all >> by the idea that emerge package and emerge -u package do the same >> thing. A machine that doesn't have a package, when updated, should >> have the package and it should (IMO) be in world, but that's just me. > > > Fine for your home PC, doesn't cut it on servers. I have the following in > one of my world files: > > =C2=A0dev-php/PEAR-Mail > =C2=A0dev-php/PEAR-Mail_Mime > =C2=A0dev-php/PEAR-PEAR > =C2=A0dev-php/PEAR-Structures_Graph > > which of those do I want? At least one of them was installed to support a > customer's custom PHP application. Maybe all of them were and they all > belong in world. No one knows, this server is older than the current > --update behavior. > > So which ones can I remove? > > Solutions involving time travel and/or losing customers will be > disqualified. > I'm not clear. You allow your server customers to modify your servers, or what, they asked you to install stuff and now you don't know which of them was needed and why? I'm just not clear. My basic response, again allowing that I don't run servers that have 'customers' on them, is that 'equery depends' is the basic path to determine if any of these are dependencies of other things in the world file. If they are then they themselves possibly don't need to be in the world file unless they meet my rule #2 as they are required for some sort of development work your customer does. I completely agree about travel time. My family lives 350 miles away. I've managed their machines for 10 years this way and only once had a problem that required me to get physical access. In the normal worst case I have a Live CD with a couple of instructions they can execute to get me back into the machine. - Mark