From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15F7C158020 for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2022 13:31:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 18931E07E0; Thu, 8 Dec 2022 13:31:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2FBBE075F for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2022 13:31:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id z4so1556007ljq.6 for ; Thu, 08 Dec 2022 05:31:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hk7j+1NF16XF2MwKQvb8kk3KMHwHBnA6GKCi9G+KJ0E=; b=mujJlgKRRHXxMCJ0nY35WCVZ4agr2dG8tLizB5MYrNNHgM5gd391xiC4zWKxIst0q6 KwZ1QFt0qhtV+socI4b55PYVsoYS75lj0zxPE+1BKEM9szgZ3lCWbdn8R+9o4x9tXKyL imbTXPrgvoj/cpJwzGC2tadcqhIfpRc+NRGZoTLDSjDeWxuFBilHPYQvAQo05NQqqkV9 htskHwVlBn+Vh8/vIo7vE47Xu4iycXAvahNuuf0JvdRd/pjOqLZaFyWneLbCc6f6ytEe x4WQyRlbt5Rg5Y2NnUwV/Bz6iKsxZCuBRO5LHDwJVO1PYEpV1e4C3Is03Arw0FERvqrJ bXLg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hk7j+1NF16XF2MwKQvb8kk3KMHwHBnA6GKCi9G+KJ0E=; b=uPwIX38BBar5GE/NTqKECFmU5UxSUkFW2l9A0FHamwbMtjSxFrSbv/y5BOySvEU4+h jglFztlb37AqO3o9iOCaBWywEVHFsrVRwUZKF31SSlrLGHv2vIamIvNdPH/eDsywI/Jh u72LDtUGoS0/BajgwPZGNy9glomkGECNKIOsei+uUnHRZsMdJj3J/UKVixJbgs7RaHWA rqscKBAbVfOMYi2L/DgC4x7RrAl4W5KJ3FTUn84twYLayCQyhucfnUrFDaMESb+qy/ir EN/PKpzeIrVWbT7mRauNEMw6DlNNAv+Qcxg6rKvPvGISBMZoEkiQAWoQzwrPodDKfrH1 SjZg== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5plDumN2A8zd7Z2JgAKwurx/ICiA8C91TPnlfif1TqoeDqazmVWc 9t/Ki0yAjotM7sjMX5cSDwmeFWUC4ccrt2UTN9YPYzzN X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf4r/4AWYPQflkyG92JzYXor2Car5aoA3Q9UjtGp3R2siUNFRGQqNtowlgYyUYhyyrWHeDMp27QgVXZLkuXT6iA= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:a4a9:0:b0:279:c7c4:2fde with SMTP id g9-20020a2ea4a9000000b00279c7c42fdemr11110709ljm.360.1670506292733; Thu, 08 Dec 2022 05:31:32 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9407e524-2226-6ba9-dd7f-bac635d083e3@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9407e524-2226-6ba9-dd7f-bac635d083e3@gmail.com> From: Mark Knecht Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 06:31:21 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002c6ae905ef510e93" X-Archives-Salt: 1b016d3d-519f-4e3a-a6d4-077d86d35c35 X-Archives-Hash: 2594c877118ef4330731b33ef12d2f6d --0000000000002c6ae905ef510e93 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 5:38 AM Dale wrote: > > Howdy, > > I've pretty much reached a limit on my backups. I'm up to a 16TB hard > drive for one and even that won't last long. Larger drives are much > more costly. A must have NAS is quickly approaching. I've been > searching around and find some things confusing. I'm hoping someone can > clear up that confusion. I'm also debating what path to travel down. > I'd also like to keep costs down as well. That said, I don't mind > paying a little more for one that would offer a much better option. > > Path one, buy a NAS, possibly used, that has no drives. If possible, I > may even replace the OS that comes on it or upgrade if I can. I'm not > looking for fancy, or even RAID. Just looking for a two bay NAS that > will work. First, what is a DAS? Is that totally different than a > NAS? From what I've found, a DAS is not what I'm looking for since I > want a ethernet connection and the ability to control things over the > network. It seems DAS lacks that feature but not real sure. I'm not > sure I can upgrade the software/OS on a DAS either. > > Next thing. Let's say a NAS comes with two 4TB drives for a total of > 8TB of capacity from the factory, using LVM or similar software I > assume. Is that limited to that capacity or can I for example replace > one or both drives with for example 14TB drives for a total of 28TBs of > capacity? If one does that, let's say it uses LVM, can I somehow move > data as well or is that beyond the abilities of a NAS? Could it be done > inside my computer for example? Does this vary by brand or even model? > > Path two, I've researched building a NAS using a Raspberry Pi 4 8GB as > another option. They come as parts, cases too, but the newer and faster > models of Raspberry Pi 4 with more ram seem to work pretty well. The > old slower models with small amounts of ram don't fair as well. While I > want a descent speed, I'm not looking for or expecting it to be > blazingly fast. I just wonder, if from a upgrade and expansion point of > view, if building a NAS would be better. I've also noticed, it seems > all Raspberry things come with a display port. That means I could hook > up a monitor and mouse/keyboard when needed. That could be a bonus. > Heck, I may can even put some sort of Gentoo on that thing. :-D > > One reason I'm wanting to go this route, I'm trying to keep it small and > able to fit inside my fire safe. I plan to buy a media type safe that > is larger but right now, it needs to fit inside my current safe. Most > of the 2 bay NAS or a Raspberry Pi based NAS are fairly small. They not > much bigger than the three external hard drives and a couple bare drives > that currently occupy my safe. > > One thing I'd like to have no matter what path I go down, the ability to > encrypt the data. My current backup drives are encrypted and I'd like > to keep it that way. If that is possible to do. I suspect the > Raspberry option would since I'd control the OS/software placed on it. > I could be wrong tho. > > One last thing. Are there any NAS type boxes that I should absolutely > avoid if I go that route? Maybe it is a model that has serious > limitations or has other problems. I think the DAS thing may be one for > me to avoid but I'm not for sure what limits it has. Google didn't help > a lot. It also could be as simple as, avoid any model that says this in > the description or uses some type of software that is bad or limits > options. > > Thoughts? Info to share? Ideas on a best path forward? Buy already > built or build? > > Thanks. > > Dale > > :-) :-) DAS is direct-attached-storage. I don't think you want that. Synology (sp?) is sort of a big name in home & small office NAS boxes. You can buy the boxes with or without drives. I suspect you won't like the prices. I wonder if you might consider what data on your backups needs to be immediately available and which doesn't. Possibly buy an 8TB USB drive, take a bunch of the lower priority data off of your current backup thus system freeing space and move on from there? I built my NAS devices using old computers ala Wol's suggestion to me maybe a year ago. They work for me but don't have the fastest network interfaces. Raspberry Pi 4 B's are hard to get and expensive right now. Still, they are nice little devices but you would probably be limited to USB hard drive storage. --0000000000002c6ae905ef510e93 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 5:38 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Howdy,
>
> I've pretty much reached a limit on my ba= ckups.=C2=A0 I'm up to a 16TB hard
> drive for one and even that = won't last long.=C2=A0 Larger drives are much
> more costly.=C2= =A0 A must have NAS is quickly approaching.=C2=A0 I've been
> sea= rching around and find some things confusing.=C2=A0 I'm hoping someone = can
> clear up that confusion.=C2=A0 I'm also debating what path = to travel down.
> I'd also like to keep costs down as well.=C2= =A0 That said, I don't mind
> paying a little more for one that w= ould offer a much better option.
>
> Path one, buy a NAS, poss= ibly used, that has no drives.=C2=A0 If possible, I
> may even replac= e the OS that comes on it or upgrade if I can.=C2=A0 I'm not
> lo= oking for fancy, or even RAID.=C2=A0 Just looking for a two bay NAS that> will work.=C2=A0 First, what is a DAS?=C2=A0 Is that totally differen= t than a
> NAS?=C2=A0 From what I've found, a DAS is not what I&#= 39;m looking for since I
> want a ethernet connection and the ability= to control things over the
> network.=C2=A0 It seems DAS lacks that = feature but not real sure.=C2=A0 I'm not
> sure I can upgrade the= software/OS on a DAS either.
>
> Next thing.=C2=A0 Let's = say a NAS comes with two 4TB drives for a total of
> 8TB of capacity = from the factory, using LVM or similar software I
> assume.=C2=A0 Is = that limited to that capacity or can I for example replace
> one or b= oth drives with for example 14TB drives for a total of 28TBs of
> cap= acity?=C2=A0 If one does that, let's say it uses LVM, can I somehow mov= e
> data as well or is that beyond the abilities of a NAS?=C2=A0 Coul= d it be done
> inside my computer for example?=C2=A0 Does this vary b= y brand or even model?
>
> Path two, I've researched build= ing a NAS using a Raspberry Pi 4 8GB as
> another option.=C2=A0 They = come as parts, cases too, but the newer and faster
> models of Raspbe= rry Pi 4 with more ram seem to work pretty well.=C2=A0 The
> old slow= er models with small amounts of ram don't fair as well.=C2=A0 While I> want a descent speed, I'm not looking for or expecting it to be<= br>> blazingly fast.=C2=A0 I just wonder, if from a upgrade and expansio= n point of
> view, if building a NAS would be better.=C2=A0 I've = also noticed, it seems
> all Raspberry things come with a display por= t.=C2=A0 That means I could hook
> up a monitor and mouse/keyboard wh= en needed.=C2=A0 That could be a bonus.
> Heck, I may can even put s= ome sort of Gentoo on that thing. =C2=A0:-D
>
> One reason I= 9;m wanting to go this route, I'm trying to keep it small and
> a= ble to fit inside my fire safe.=C2=A0 I plan to buy a media type safe that<= br>> is larger but right now, it needs to fit inside my current safe.=C2= =A0 Most
> of the 2 bay NAS or a Raspberry Pi based NAS are fairly sm= all.=C2=A0 They not
> much bigger than the three external hard drives= and a couple bare drives
> that currently occupy my safe.
>> One thing I'd like to have no matter what path I go down, the ab= ility to
> encrypt the data.=C2=A0 My current backup drives are encry= pted and I'd like
> to keep it that way.=C2=A0 If that is possibl= e to do.=C2=A0 I suspect the
> Raspberry option would since I'd c= ontrol the OS/software placed on it.
> I could be wrong tho.
>= ;
> One last thing.=C2=A0 Are there any NAS type boxes that I should = absolutely
> avoid if I go that route?=C2=A0 Maybe it is a model that= has serious
> limitations or has other problems.=C2=A0 I think the D= AS thing may be one for
> me to avoid but I'm not for sure what l= imits it has.=C2=A0 Google didn't help
> a lot. It also could be = as simple as, avoid any model that says this in
> the description or = uses some type of software that is bad or limits
> options.
><= br>> Thoughts?=C2=A0 Info to share?=C2=A0 Ideas on a best path forward?= =C2=A0 Buy already
> built or build?
>
> Thanks.
><= br>> Dale
>
> :-) =C2=A0:-)

DAS is direc= t-attached-storage. I don't think you want that.

Synology (sp?) is sort of a big name in home & small office NAS boxe= s. You can buy the boxes with or without drives. I suspect you won't li= ke the prices.

I wonder if you might consider what= data on your backups needs to be immediately available and which doesn'= ;t. Possibly buy an 8TB USB drive, take a bunch of the lower priority data = off of your current backup thus system freeing space and move on from there= ?

I built my NAS devices using old computers ala W= ol's suggestion to me maybe a year ago. They work for me but don't = have the fastest network interfaces.

Raspberry Pi = 4 B's are hard to get and expensive right now. Still, they are nice lit= tle devices but you would probably be limited to USB hard drive storage.
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