[gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[Mark Knecht]

I don't remember reading about anyone else with this problem.
Hopefully I haven't missed the right thread.

I run stable Gentoo + a few ~amd64 packages. My video adapter is an
NVidia 463 GTX. Since the update to adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 a few
weeks ago all Flash apps crash the plugin within Firefox. I posted a
bug report here and got shot down for reasons I don't understand. (I
understand what he said and why he said it, but I didn't understand
them just giving up without feedback back to Adobe, etc.)

I'm wondering if anyone else has suffered through this to find a
solution. The nouveau suggestion isn't where I want to go with my
machines and I'm just not finding any solutions on the web yet.

Anyway, there was at the time a newer (IIRC) or possibly slightly
older (IIDRC) Flash ebuild but it's been removed from portage. That
one worked for me. There is a newer version (11.2.202.233) listed on
the Adobe Flash site but I haven't found info on what it corrects.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't remember reading about anyone else with this problem.
> Hopefully I haven't missed the right thread.
>
> I run stable Gentoo + a few ~amd64 packages. My video adapter is an
> NVidia 463 GTX. Since the update to adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 a few
> weeks ago all Flash apps crash the plugin within Firefox. I posted a
> bug report here and got shot down for reasons I don't understand. (I
> understand what he said and why he said it, but I didn't understand
> them just giving up without feedback back to Adobe, etc.)
>
> I'm wondering if anyone else has suffered through this to find a
> solution. The nouveau suggestion isn't where I want to go with my
> machines and I'm just not finding any solutions on the web yet.
>
> Anyway, there was at the time a newer (IIRC) or possibly slightly
> older (IIDRC) Flash ebuild but it's been removed from portage. That
> one worked for me. There is a newer version (11.2.202.233) listed on
> the Adobe Flash site but I haven't found info on what it corrects.
>
> Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Flash 11.2 added some new kind of hardware acceleration which
apparently doesn't work properly for whatever reason. Disable HW
acceleration in /etc/adobe/mms.cfg and cross your fingers... or
downgrade to 11.1.

Re: [gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Paul Hartman
<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't remember reading about anyone else with this problem.
>> Hopefully I haven't missed the right thread.
>>
>> I run stable Gentoo + a few ~amd64 packages. My video adapter is an
>> NVidia 463 GTX. Since the update to adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 a few
>> weeks ago all Flash apps crash the plugin within Firefox. I posted a
>> bug report here and got shot down for reasons I don't understand. (I
>> understand what he said and why he said it, but I didn't understand
>> them just giving up without feedback back to Adobe, etc.)
>>
>> I'm wondering if anyone else has suffered through this to find a
>> solution. The nouveau suggestion isn't where I want to go with my
>> machines and I'm just not finding any solutions on the web yet.
>>
>> Anyway, there was at the time a newer (IIRC) or possibly slightly
>> older (IIDRC) Flash ebuild but it's been removed from portage. That
>> one worked for me. There is a newer version (11.2.202.233) listed on
>> the Adobe Flash site but I haven't found info on what it corrects.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>
> Flash 11.2 added some new kind of hardware acceleration which
> apparently doesn't work properly for whatever reason. Disable HW
> acceleration in /etc/adobe/mms.cfg and cross your fingers... or
> downgrade to 11.1.
>

Generically, I've been trying to disable HW Accel but it hasn't fixed
the problem I'm seeing. I've tried

EnableLinuxHWVideoDecode=0

along with

AVHardwareDisable = 1

and

OverrideGPUValidation=0
or
OverrideGPUValidation=1

which I don't think have anything to do with this, but I tried it
anyway. No luck with those. Flash still crashes and I see this in
dmesg:

[25443.454436] plugin-containe[5665]: segfault at 0 ip
00007f2a356441c5 sp 00007fff04e606e0 error 4 in
libmozalloc.so[7f2a35643000+2000]
[25446.424259] plugin-containe[7029]: segfault at 0 ip
00007f4690ef21c5 sp 00007fff788f1390 error 4 in
libmozalloc.so[7f4690ef1000+2000]

Most all of the references I find on the web have you turn off
acceleration using a click box in Flash, but my Flash crashes so I
have no GUI at all.

With respect to 11.1, I suspect that's what I was running earlier but
it's no longer in portage on any of my systems and I'm not finding it
in any overlay.

Thanks, I'll keep trying.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[Matthew Marlowe]

>>> I run stable Gentoo + a few ~amd64 packages. My video adapter is an
>>> NVidia 463 GTX. Since the update to adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 a few
>>> weeks ago all Flash apps crash the plugin within Firefox. I posted a
>>> bug report here and got shot down for reasons I don't understand. (I
>>> understand what he said and why he said it, but I didn't understand
>>> them just giving up without feedback back to Adobe, etc.)
>>>

Try toggling the vdpau use flag and recompiling any impacted packages.
 That might fix things.

There really isn't a perfect cure here, adobe has essentially
abandoned the linux user base which is hitting nvidia users first for
some reason (except for minimal support for chromium).

If all you care about is videos and youtube, you can probably add
yourself to the html5 beta test at youtube and switch to a different
flash engine like lightspark/gnash for everything else.


-- 
Matthew Marlowe
matt@professionalsysadmin.com
https://www.twitter.com/deploylinux
1-805-857-9144

Re: [gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Paul Hartman
> <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I don't remember reading about anyone else with this problem.
>>> Hopefully I haven't missed the right thread.
>>>
>>> I run stable Gentoo + a few ~amd64 packages. My video adapter is an
>>> NVidia 463 GTX. Since the update to adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 a few
>>> weeks ago all Flash apps crash the plugin within Firefox. I posted a
>>> bug report here and got shot down for reasons I don't understand. (I
>>> understand what he said and why he said it, but I didn't understand
>>> them just giving up without feedback back to Adobe, etc.)
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if anyone else has suffered through this to find a
>>> solution. The nouveau suggestion isn't where I want to go with my
>>> machines and I'm just not finding any solutions on the web yet.
>>>
>>> Anyway, there was at the time a newer (IIRC) or possibly slightly
>>> older (IIDRC) Flash ebuild but it's been removed from portage. That
>>> one worked for me. There is a newer version (11.2.202.233) listed on
>>> the Adobe Flash site but I haven't found info on what it corrects.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>>
>> Flash 11.2 added some new kind of hardware acceleration which
>> apparently doesn't work properly for whatever reason. Disable HW
>> acceleration in /etc/adobe/mms.cfg and cross your fingers... or
>> downgrade to 11.1.
>>
>
> Generically, I've been trying to disable HW Accel but it hasn't fixed
> the problem I'm seeing. I've tried
>
> EnableLinuxHWVideoDecode=0
>
> along with
>
> AVHardwareDisable = 1
>
> and
>
> OverrideGPUValidation=0
> or
> OverrideGPUValidation=1
>
> which I don't think have anything to do with this, but I tried it
> anyway. No luck with those. Flash still crashes and I see this in
> dmesg:
>
> [25443.454436] plugin-containe[5665]: segfault at 0 ip
> 00007f2a356441c5 sp 00007fff04e606e0 error 4 in
> libmozalloc.so[7f2a35643000+2000]
> [25446.424259] plugin-containe[7029]: segfault at 0 ip
> 00007f4690ef21c5 sp 00007fff788f1390 error 4 in
> libmozalloc.so[7f4690ef1000+2000]
>
> Most all of the references I find on the web have you turn off
> acceleration using a click box in Flash, but my Flash crashes so I
> have no GUI at all.
>
> With respect to 11.1, I suspect that's what I was running earlier but
> it's no longer in portage on any of my systems and I'm not finding it
> in any overlay.
>
> Thanks, I'll keep trying.

11.2 actually still crashes randomly for me, too, even with disabling
the HW acceleration (Bank of America's one-time-use credit card
generator for example does not work anymore...) I was thinking mostly
of video playback problems (the blue tinted video, etc) but forgot
about the other crashing I experienced...

You can get old ebuilds from the portage CVS interface and drop them
into a local overlay.
http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/www-plugins/adobe-flash/?hideattic=0

From what I read, there will be no further releases of flash for
linux, except for the chrome-embedded version, so we may just be stuck
with this broken version, to use chrome, or forced to downgrade to an
insecure version (I'm sure this one is insecure, too, they just
haven't found it yet...)

Re: [gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[Dale]

Mark Knecht wrote:

> Thanks, I'll keep trying.
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark
> 
> 

I was diggin around to see if I could help in some small way but found
something weird here.  I have the 11.1 version installed.  It's not in
the tree tho.  Since I have it installed, could I send you the ebuild
and you put it in a overlay and install 11.1?

If you want me to do that, let me know what you need and maybe where it
is.  Aren't they in /var somewhere?  It's been a while so I'm not sure
if this is even doable.

Let me know if you want to try this.

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output?  Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"

Re: [gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[meino.cramer]

Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> [12-04-28 00:20]:
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't remember reading about anyone else with this problem.
> > Hopefully I haven't missed the right thread.
> >
> > I run stable Gentoo + a few ~amd64 packages. My video adapter is an
> > NVidia 463 GTX. Since the update to adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 a few
> > weeks ago all Flash apps crash the plugin within Firefox. I posted a
> > bug report here and got shot down for reasons I don't understand. (I
> > understand what he said and why he said it, but I didn't understand
> > them just giving up without feedback back to Adobe, etc.)
> >
> > I'm wondering if anyone else has suffered through this to find a
> > solution. The nouveau suggestion isn't where I want to go with my
> > machines and I'm just not finding any solutions on the web yet.
> >
> > Anyway, there was at the time a newer (IIRC) or possibly slightly
> > older (IIDRC) Flash ebuild but it's been removed from portage. That
> > one worked for me. There is a newer version (11.2.202.233) listed on
> > the Adobe Flash site but I haven't found info on what it corrects.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> 
> Flash 11.2 added some new kind of hardware acceleration which
> apparently doesn't work properly for whatever reason. Disable HW
> acceleration in /etc/adobe/mms.cfg and cross your fingers... or
> downgrade to 11.1.
> 

I did not find any tag in that file, which allows to disable hardeware
acceleration.

Or did I miss one?

Best regards,
mcc

Re: [gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[Paul Hartman]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 5:34 PM,  <meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:
> Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> [12-04-28 00:20]:
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I don't remember reading about anyone else with this problem.
>> > Hopefully I haven't missed the right thread.
>> >
>> > I run stable Gentoo + a few ~amd64 packages. My video adapter is an
>> > NVidia 463 GTX. Since the update to adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 a few
>> > weeks ago all Flash apps crash the plugin within Firefox. I posted a
>> > bug report here and got shot down for reasons I don't understand. (I
>> > understand what he said and why he said it, but I didn't understand
>> > them just giving up without feedback back to Adobe, etc.)
>> >
>> > I'm wondering if anyone else has suffered through this to find a
>> > solution. The nouveau suggestion isn't where I want to go with my
>> > machines and I'm just not finding any solutions on the web yet.
>> >
>> > Anyway, there was at the time a newer (IIRC) or possibly slightly
>> > older (IIDRC) Flash ebuild but it's been removed from portage. That
>> > one worked for me. There is a newer version (11.2.202.233) listed on
>> > the Adobe Flash site but I haven't found info on what it corrects.
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>>
>> Flash 11.2 added some new kind of hardware acceleration which
>> apparently doesn't work properly for whatever reason. Disable HW
>> acceleration in /etc/adobe/mms.cfg and cross your fingers... or
>> downgrade to 11.1.
>>
>
> I did not find any tag in that file, which allows to disable hardeware
> acceleration.
>
> Or did I miss one?

EnableLinuxHWVideoDecode=0

maybe it's not in the default file... mine has been changed a lot :)
it was mentioned in the flash player release notes.

You can also right-click on a non-crashing clash object and change the
settings using GUI, disabling the acceleration is in there, too.

Re: [gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[meino.cramer]

Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> [12-04-28 04:56]:
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 5:34 PM,  <meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:
> > Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> [12-04-28 00:20]:
> >> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > I don't remember reading about anyone else with this problem.
> >> > Hopefully I haven't missed the right thread.
> >> >
> >> > I run stable Gentoo + a few ~amd64 packages. My video adapter is an
> >> > NVidia 463 GTX. Since the update to adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 a few
> >> > weeks ago all Flash apps crash the plugin within Firefox. I posted a
> >> > bug report here and got shot down for reasons I don't understand. (I
> >> > understand what he said and why he said it, but I didn't understand
> >> > them just giving up without feedback back to Adobe, etc.)
> >> >
> >> > I'm wondering if anyone else has suffered through this to find a
> >> > solution. The nouveau suggestion isn't where I want to go with my
> >> > machines and I'm just not finding any solutions on the web yet.
> >> >
> >> > Anyway, there was at the time a newer (IIRC) or possibly slightly
> >> > older (IIDRC) Flash ebuild but it's been removed from portage. That
> >> > one worked for me. There is a newer version (11.2.202.233) listed on
> >> > the Adobe Flash site but I haven't found info on what it corrects.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> >>
> >> Flash 11.2 added some new kind of hardware acceleration which
> >> apparently doesn't work properly for whatever reason. Disable HW
> >> acceleration in /etc/adobe/mms.cfg and cross your fingers... or
> >> downgrade to 11.1.
> >>
> >
> > I did not find any tag in that file, which allows to disable hardeware
> > acceleration.
> >
> > Or did I miss one?
> 
> EnableLinuxHWVideoDecode=0
> 
> maybe it's not in the default file... mine has been changed a lot :)
> it was mentioned in the flash player release notes.
> 
> You can also right-click on a non-crashing clash object and change the
> settings using GUI, disabling the acceleration is in there, too.
> 
This does not work for me. The Clash player still starts with hardware
accel enabled and give me that nice LSD-colored impressions... ;(

Is there any other way to prevent the need of clicking this dialog?

And why adobe stops the linux-support?

Best regards,
mcc

Re: [gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[Paul Hartman]

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 8:19 PM,  <meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:
> And why adobe stops the linux-support?

They are backing away from Flash in general across all platforms.
Android and Linux are first announced. Most of the thousands of
workers recently laid-off at Adobe are from the Flash area, from what
I've been told. Heavy rumors that Microsoft is stopping future
investment into Silverlight as well. It seems HTML5 is the future,
which will be good for us in the long term.

Re: [gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Paul Hartman
<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't remember reading about anyone else with this problem.
>> Hopefully I haven't missed the right thread.
>>
>> I run stable Gentoo + a few ~amd64 packages. My video adapter is an
>> NVidia 463 GTX. Since the update to adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 a few
>> weeks ago all Flash apps crash the plugin within Firefox. I posted a
>> bug report here and got shot down for reasons I don't understand. (I
>> understand what he said and why he said it, but I didn't understand
>> them just giving up without feedback back to Adobe, etc.)
>>
>> I'm wondering if anyone else has suffered through this to find a
>> solution. The nouveau suggestion isn't where I want to go with my
>> machines and I'm just not finding any solutions on the web yet.
>>
>> Anyway, there was at the time a newer (IIRC) or possibly slightly
>> older (IIDRC) Flash ebuild but it's been removed from portage. That
>> one worked for me. There is a newer version (11.2.202.233) listed on
>> the Adobe Flash site but I haven't found info on what it corrects.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>
> Flash 11.2 added some new kind of hardware acceleration which
> apparently doesn't work properly for whatever reason. Disable HW
> acceleration in /etc/adobe/mms.cfg and cross your fingers... or
> downgrade to 11.1.
>

I thought I'd report back that while Flash continues to crash on this
machine only even with updates to both Firefox & adobe-flash, I tried
Google Chrome this morning and it works perfectly. I appears the root
cause of this problem would be Firefox, not Flash or nvidia-drivers,
and I once again have a solution for watching Flash-based media, at
least for the short term.

My thinking at this point is that Google is going to drive a solution
that keeps YouTube users happy. I doubt long-term they'll let Adobe, a
much smaller company, control their future... :-)

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[Alecks Gates]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2455 bytes --]

Doesn't Google bundle a version of flash with their browser?  Or is that
something that's coming in the future?

I had flash crashing a lot on my machine, and just disabled hardware
acceleration in the settings to fix it.

Alecks Gates, sent from Android on an HTC G2
On May 6, 2012 10:28 AM, "Mark Knecht" <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Paul Hartman
> <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> I don't remember reading about anyone else with this problem.
> >> Hopefully I haven't missed the right thread.
> >>
> >> I run stable Gentoo + a few ~amd64 packages. My video adapter is an
> >> NVidia 463 GTX. Since the update to adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 a few
> >> weeks ago all Flash apps crash the plugin within Firefox. I posted a
> >> bug report here and got shot down for reasons I don't understand. (I
> >> understand what he said and why he said it, but I didn't understand
> >> them just giving up without feedback back to Adobe, etc.)
> >>
> >> I'm wondering if anyone else has suffered through this to find a
> >> solution. The nouveau suggestion isn't where I want to go with my
> >> machines and I'm just not finding any solutions on the web yet.
> >>
> >> Anyway, there was at the time a newer (IIRC) or possibly slightly
> >> older (IIDRC) Flash ebuild but it's been removed from portage. That
> >> one worked for me. There is a newer version (11.2.202.233) listed on
> >> the Adobe Flash site but I haven't found info on what it corrects.
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> >
> > Flash 11.2 added some new kind of hardware acceleration which
> > apparently doesn't work properly for whatever reason. Disable HW
> > acceleration in /etc/adobe/mms.cfg and cross your fingers... or
> > downgrade to 11.1.
> >
>
> I thought I'd report back that while Flash continues to crash on this
> machine only even with updates to both Firefox & adobe-flash, I tried
> Google Chrome this morning and it works perfectly. I appears the root
> cause of this problem would be Firefox, not Flash or nvidia-drivers,
> and I once again have a solution for watching Flash-based media, at
> least for the short term.
>
> My thinking at this point is that Google is going to drive a solution
> that keeps YouTube users happy. I doubt long-term they'll let Adobe, a
> much smaller company, control their future... :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3146 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[Mark Knecht]

>
<SNIP>
>> I thought I'd report back that while Flash continues to crash on this
>> machine only even with updates to both Firefox & adobe-flash, I tried
>> Google Chrome this morning and it works perfectly. I appears the root
>> cause of this problem would be Firefox, not Flash or nvidia-drivers,
>> and I once again have a solution for watching Flash-based media, at
>> least for the short term.
>>
>> My thinking at this point is that Google is going to drive a solution
>> that keeps YouTube users happy. I doubt long-term they'll let Adobe, a
>> much smaller company, control their future... :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>>
>

On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Alecks Gates <alecks.g@gmail.com> wrote:
> Doesn't Google bundle a version of flash with their browser?  Or is that
> something that's coming in the future?
>
> I had flash crashing a lot on my machine, and just disabled hardware
> acceleration in the settings to fix it.
>
> Alecks Gates, sent from Android on an HTC G2

Maybe that's why it works. Who knows? ;-)

Anyway, the 'disable HW acceleration' recommendation didn't work on my
machine because the crash was in the Mozilla Flash plugin container
and Flash never came up. It was just a Sad Mac face and a box that
said Flash crashed so I never had the opportunity to turn it off. Even
with the recommendations folks here made about turning it off in the
config file it still never worked for me. I've come to think of this
as a Firefox crash that only happens when starting Flash, and not
actually a Flash crash.

- Mark

[gentoo-user] Re: adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[walt]

On 05/06/2012 09:39 AM, Mark Knecht wrote:

> I've come to think of this
> as a Firefox crash that only happens when starting Flash, and not
> actually a Flash crash.

Firefox nerds often suggest starting firefox with the -safemode flag
as an experiment.  IIRC it never works, but you can try it :)

In the old days you could start it with a -g flag and run it from gdb,
but firefox-bin doesn't do that anymore.  You could edit the firefox
shellscript and stick a 'gdb' in there, which should do the same thing.

Re: [gentoo-user] adobe-flash-11.2.202.228 + nvidia crashing

[Walter Dnes]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 01:22:21PM -0700, Mark Knecht wrote

  Do you have a really old Intel CPU, or an AMD before the K8 version?
Old Intels and and pre-K8 AMDs don't support SSE2, which is used in the
latest Flash binaries.  Using instructions that don't exist on your CPU
== crash city.  There's a thread about this in the Gentoo dev forum.
For the gory details, see...

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gentoo/dev/252481?do=post_view_threaded 

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>