[gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[tuxic]

Hi,

to prevent a lot of installation and configuration effort only to
recognize, that it does not work:

Is Firefox/Waterfox able to interface with jackd?

Cheers!
Meino

Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[Mark Knecht]

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On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 8:38 AM <tuxic@posteo.de> wrote:
>
> Is Firefox/Waterfox able to interface with jackd?
>
> Cheers!
> Meino
>

Personally, meaning my thoughts having used Jack for years, is that you'd
be asking for an insane numbers of problems and never ending
disappointments if you went this way.

That said:

https://jackaudio.org/applications/

at the very bottom of the page it does indicate that if you build Firefox
with custom build flags that it will connect to jackd.

A little bit of browsing makes it look (to my untrained eye) that possibly
these build flags were never fully adopted by the Firefox folks but as I
think this is an idea that's likely to produce more tears than joy I didn't
look very hard.

I use Jack every day on my system. Personally I'd never use it for general
purpose web audio.

Good luck, and if you do it let us know how it works.

Mark

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Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[Matt Connell (Gmail)]

On 2020-05-05 10:38, tuxic@posteo.de wrote:
> Is Firefox/Waterfox able to interface with jackd?

Disclaimer, I do not use Jack.

Firefox builds, in my personal experience, are intended to be used with 
pulseaudio and only pulseaudio.  Some people have made some shims for 
making it worth with alsa, but they don't look sustainable.

As the other poster said, this endeavor is likely to result in 
frustration.  You may get it to 'work' for some value of that word, but 
depending on expectations, it may not be worth your while.

Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[Mark Knecht]

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On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:22 AM Matt Connell (Gmail) <
matthewdconnell@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2020-05-05 10:38, tuxic@posteo.de wrote:
> > Is Firefox/Waterfox able to interface with jackd?
>
> Disclaimer, I do not use Jack.
>
> Firefox builds, in my personal experience, are intended to be used with
> pulseaudio and only pulseaudio.  Some people have made some shims for
> making it worth with alsa, but they don't look sustainable.
>
> As the other poster said, this endeavor is likely to result in
> frustration.  You may get it to 'work' for some value of that word, but
> depending on expectations, it may not be worth your while.

I think Matt makes an excellent point. The solution you're looking for
these days really
is pulseaudio, not Jack. pulseaudio handles multiple sound source
applications, can
route to multiple sound cards, and provides rudimentary metering so you can
see
what's going on. I have no experience using it on anything other than KDE
but these
days I feel it does a good job at what it's designed for.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[Dale]

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Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:22 AM Matt Connell (Gmail)
> <matthewdconnell@gmail.com <mailto:matthewdconnell@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > On 2020-05-05 10:38, tuxic@posteo.de <mailto:tuxic@posteo.de> wrote:
> > > Is Firefox/Waterfox able to interface with jackd?
> >
> > Disclaimer, I do not use Jack.
> >
> > Firefox builds, in my personal experience, are intended to be used with
> > pulseaudio and only pulseaudio.  Some people have made some shims for
> > making it worth with alsa, but they don't look sustainable.
> >
> > As the other poster said, this endeavor is likely to result in
> > frustration.  You may get it to 'work' for some value of that word, but
> > depending on expectations, it may not be worth your while.
>
> I think Matt makes an excellent point. The solution you're looking for
> these days really 
> is pulseaudio, not Jack. pulseaudio handles multiple sound source
> applications, can
> route to multiple sound cards, and provides rudimentary metering so
> you can see 
> what's going on. I have no experience using it on anything other than
> KDE but these 
> days I feel it does a good job at what it's designed for. 


Question, somewhat off topic but somewhat on topic.  I use smplayer to
send my videos to my TV using the second port on my video card.  I set
smplayer to send the audio to the TV, instead of my puter speakers. 
I've never used pulseaudio but with Firefox heading down that path, I
might have to switch.  My question is, if I switched to pulseaudio, can
I tell it that smplayer goes to TV and things like Firefox, Seamonkey,
gnome-player and such goes to the puter speakers?  From what I've read,
it sounds like that is pretty much what it does.  Right now, I'm using
ALSA, Kmix and friends.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[Mark Knecht]

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On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:43 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
<SNIP>
>
> Question, somewhat off topic but somewhat on topic.  I use smplayer to
send my videos to my TV using the second port on my video card.  I set
smplayer to send the audio to the TV, instead of my puter speakers.  I've
never used pulseaudio but with Firefox heading down that path, I might have
to switch.  My question is, if I switched to pulseaudio, can I tell it that
smplayer goes to TV and things like Firefox, Seamonkey, gnome-player and
such goes to the puter speakers?  From what I've read, it sounds like that
is pretty much what it does.  Right now, I'm using ALSA, Kmix and friends.
>
Short answer - yes, I believe so.

Long answer - I don't know how much pulseaudio will remember settings from
session to session. If you emerge pavucontrol (kubuntu installs it by
default, it appears Gentoo requires you to add it. On my system it's
pavucontrol-qt) you should see something akin to this, assuming this link
survives email

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1B_Rgaomiru0DNmuTFUwZy-9q5p4SGo_L

Each app has a section, each section can be routed where you please. Each
section has a horizontal VU meter so you can see where audio is coming
from.

If you use pulseaudio then it owns the Alsa stack. You no longer
communicate with Alsa using the old apps. In the general case I believe
that alsamixer continues to work but I wouldn't bet on that for all systems
and all soundcards.

HTH,
Mark

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Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[Dale]

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Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:43 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com
> <mailto:rdalek1967@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> <SNIP>
> >
> > Question, somewhat off topic but somewhat on topic.  I use smplayer
> to send my videos to my TV using the second port on my video card.  I
> set smplayer to send the audio to the TV, instead of my puter
> speakers.  I've never used pulseaudio but with Firefox heading down
> that path, I might have to switch.  My question is, if I switched to
> pulseaudio, can I tell it that smplayer goes to TV and things like
> Firefox, Seamonkey, gnome-player and such goes to the puter speakers? 
> From what I've read, it sounds like that is pretty much what it does. 
> Right now, I'm using ALSA, Kmix and friends.
> >
> Short answer - yes, I believe so.
>
> Long answer - I don't know how much pulseaudio will remember settings
> from session to session. If you emerge pavucontrol (kubuntu installs
> it by default, it appears Gentoo requires you to add it. On my system
> it's pavucontrol-qt) you should see something akin to this, assuming
> this link survives email
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1B_Rgaomiru0DNmuTFUwZy-9q5p4SGo_L
>
> Each app has a section, each section can be routed where you please.
> Each section has a horizontal VU meter so you can see where audio is
> coming from. 
>
> If you use pulseaudio then it owns the Alsa stack. You no longer
> communicate with Alsa using the old apps. In the general case I
> believe that alsamixer continues to work but I wouldn't bet on that
> for all systems and all soundcards. 
>
> HTH,
> Mark


That makes some sense.  I did a pretend with the USE flag enabled on the
command line just to see what all it would re-emerge and pull in as
deps.  The package you mentioned is pulled in so that should had some
function.


[ebuild  N     ] media-sound/pavucontrol-qt-0.14.1


I notice KDE pulls in a new package or two as well that are some sort of
control functions.  Of course, it rebuilds several packages with the
flag change as well. 

I may give that a try.  When I first heard of it, it was pretty buggy
since it was fairly new.  It seems that those bugs were stomped on and
from more recent info, it is pretty stable and works well. 

Thanks for the info.  Helps me to decide whether to dive in or to stay
out of the water.  lol 

Dale

:-)  :-)

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Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[Michael]

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On Tuesday, 5 May 2020 18:33:29 BST Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:43 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> <SNIP>
> 
> > Question, somewhat off topic but somewhat on topic.  I use smplayer to
> 
> send my videos to my TV using the second port on my video card.  I set
> smplayer to send the audio to the TV, instead of my puter speakers.  I've
> never used pulseaudio but with Firefox heading down that path, I might have
> to switch.  My question is, if I switched to pulseaudio, can I tell it that
> smplayer goes to TV and things like Firefox, Seamonkey, gnome-player and
> such goes to the puter speakers?  From what I've read, it sounds like that
> is pretty much what it does.  Right now, I'm using ALSA, Kmix and friends.
> 
> Short answer - yes, I believe so.
> 
> Long answer - I don't know how much pulseaudio will remember settings from
> session to session. If you emerge pavucontrol (kubuntu installs it by
> default, it appears Gentoo requires you to add it. On my system it's
> pavucontrol-qt) you should see something akin to this, assuming this link
> survives email
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1B_Rgaomiru0DNmuTFUwZy-9q5p4SGo_L
> 
> Each app has a section, each section can be routed where you please. Each
> section has a horizontal VU meter so you can see where audio is coming
> from.
> 
> If you use pulseaudio then it owns the Alsa stack. You no longer
> communicate with Alsa using the old apps. In the general case I believe
> that alsamixer continues to work but I wouldn't bet on that for all systems
> and all soundcards.
> 
> HTH,
> Mark

Kmix displays both in different tabs.  Of course it makes sense to use a tool 
you decided to install (e.g. pulseaudio) rather than trying to fight against 
it with alsamixer over control of the audio.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[Dale]

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Michael wrote:
> On Tuesday, 5 May 2020 18:33:29 BST Mark Knecht wrote:
>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:43 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> <SNIP>
>>
>>> Question, somewhat off topic but somewhat on topic.  I use smplayer to
>> send my videos to my TV using the second port on my video card.  I set
>> smplayer to send the audio to the TV, instead of my puter speakers.  I've
>> never used pulseaudio but with Firefox heading down that path, I might have
>> to switch.  My question is, if I switched to pulseaudio, can I tell it that
>> smplayer goes to TV and things like Firefox, Seamonkey, gnome-player and
>> such goes to the puter speakers?  From what I've read, it sounds like that
>> is pretty much what it does.  Right now, I'm using ALSA, Kmix and friends.
>>
>> Short answer - yes, I believe so.
>>
>> Long answer - I don't know how much pulseaudio will remember settings from
>> session to session. If you emerge pavucontrol (kubuntu installs it by
>> default, it appears Gentoo requires you to add it. On my system it's
>> pavucontrol-qt) you should see something akin to this, assuming this link
>> survives email
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1B_Rgaomiru0DNmuTFUwZy-9q5p4SGo_L
>>
>> Each app has a section, each section can be routed where you please. Each
>> section has a horizontal VU meter so you can see where audio is coming
>> from.
>>
>> If you use pulseaudio then it owns the Alsa stack. You no longer
>> communicate with Alsa using the old apps. In the general case I believe
>> that alsamixer continues to work but I wouldn't bet on that for all systems
>> and all soundcards.
>>
>> HTH,
>> Mark
> Kmix displays both in different tabs.  Of course it makes sense to use a tool 
> you decided to install (e.g. pulseaudio) rather than trying to fight against 
> it with alsamixer over control of the audio.


I was even thinking if I could disable things like Kmix and such to make
it simple.  I remember years ago when everything was muted by default. 
After a fresh install, you would have to go to each audio program and
unmute in order to get sound.  Miss even one, no sound.  Having just one
seems to be more simple. 

Waiting on some downloads to finish before I can do anything.  May have
to logout and back in again anyway,  That silly sddm thingy is still
hoggin up a lot of memory.  I have to reset about every day to clear
that up.  Where's my hammer??  :/

Dale

:-)  :-)  :-)

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Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[tuxic]

On 05/05 11:22, Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote:
> On 2020-05-05 10:38, tuxic@posteo.de wrote:
> > Is Firefox/Waterfox able to interface with jackd?
> 
> Disclaimer, I do not use Jack.
> 
> Firefox builds, in my personal experience, are intended to be used with
> pulseaudio and only pulseaudio.  Some people have made some shims for making
> it worth with alsa, but they don't look sustainable.
> 
> As the other poster said, this endeavor is likely to result in frustration.
> You may get it to 'work' for some value of that word, but depending on
> expectations, it may not be worth your while.
> 

HI all,

thanks for the repsonse.

I am using waterfox, which is not in portage. The mentioning of 
Forefox was onlu to make its heritage clear.

I already have some "experiences" make, when it comes to other things
for audio than alsa.

Background to my question:
I am still searching for a equalizer solution, which does not
uses the eq provided by the hardware (I am using a DAC, which
does nothing else, than converting PCM into an analog signal.
No processing whatsoever.

So the eq has to have some sort of DSP funktionality build in.

And it should be made for background processing.

Anu helpful alsa-based idea is very appreciated...

Cheers!
Meino

Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[Mark Knecht]

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On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:38 AM <tuxic@posteo.de> wrote:
<SNIP>
> Background to my question:
> I am still searching for a equalizer solution, which does not
> uses the eq provided by the hardware (I am using a DAC, which
> does nothing else, than converting PCM into an analog signal.
> No processing whatsoever.
>
> So the eq has to have some sort of DSP funktionality build in.
>
> And it should be made for background processing.
>
> Anu helpful alsa-based idea is very appreciated...
>
> Cheers!
> Meino

pulseeffects possibly? I've never used it.

Good luck,
Mark

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Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[Michael]

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On Tuesday, 5 May 2020 18:34:29 BST Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:38 AM <tuxic@posteo.de> wrote:
> <SNIP>
> 
> > Background to my question:
> > I am still searching for a equalizer solution, which does not
> > uses the eq provided by the hardware (I am using a DAC, which
> > does nothing else, than converting PCM into an analog signal.
> > No processing whatsoever.
> > 
> > So the eq has to have some sort of DSP funktionality build in.
> > 
> > And it should be made for background processing.
> > 
> > Anu helpful alsa-based idea is very appreciated...
> > 
> > Cheers!
> > Meino
> 
> pulseeffects possibly? I've never used it.
> 
> Good luck,
> Mark

I use FF-68.7.0-r1 with USE="-pulseaudio" and it works fine producing sound.

There's this equaliser for alsa, but I haven't used it myself:

$ eix -l alsaequal
* media-plugins/alsaequal
     Available versions:  
       ~    0.7.1	[ABI_MIPS="n32 n64 o32" ABI_RISCV="lp64 lp64d" 
ABI_S390="32 64" ABI_X86="32 64 x32"]
     Homepage:            https://github.com/bassdr/alsaequal
     Description:         A real-time adjustable equalizer plugin for ALSA

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Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[Matt Connell (Gmail)]

On 2020-05-05 13:00, Michael wrote:
> I use FF-68.7.0-r1 with USE="-pulseaudio" and it works fine producing sound.

I stand corrected then.  I wasn't able to get FF audio working without 
the pulseaudio use flag, but that may have been because I was trying to 
do so while still having pulse installed, or I was just "doing it wrong" 
with alsa, or something like that.  It was a couple of years ago and my 
memory isn't great, but I'm glad that there is a way to get it done.

Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[tuxic]

On 05/05 10:34, Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:38 AM <tuxic@posteo.de> wrote:
> <SNIP>
> > Background to my question:
> > I am still searching for a equalizer solution, which does not
> > uses the eq provided by the hardware (I am using a DAC, which
> > does nothing else, than converting PCM into an analog signal.
> > No processing whatsoever.
> >
> > So the eq has to have some sort of DSP funktionality build in.
> >
> > And it should be made for background processing.
> >
> > Anu helpful alsa-based idea is very appreciated...
> >
> > Cheers!
> > Meino
> 
> pulseeffects possibly? I've never used it.
> 
> Good luck,
> Mark


Hi Mark,

in the meanwhile I installed quite a few pulse-related applications
and pulseaudio itsself includeing pusleeffects.

For the first, the equaliser problem is kinda solved -- I haven't
checked, whether the settings will survive a reboot.

I don't know of the quality of the sound processing of the
equaliser...but it is definetlu a step in the right direction.

Hopefully all related applications I use will cooperate... ;)

Thanks to all of us who helped! -- very appreciated!

Cheers!
Meino

Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox/Watefox and jack?

[Gerion Entrup]

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Am Dienstag, 5. Mai 2020, 18:38:26 CEST schrieb tuxic@posteo.de:
> On 05/05 11:22, Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote:
> > On 2020-05-05 10:38, tuxic@posteo.de wrote:
> > > Is Firefox/Waterfox able to interface with jackd?
> > 
> > Disclaimer, I do not use Jack.
> > 
> > Firefox builds, in my personal experience, are intended to be used with
> > pulseaudio and only pulseaudio.  Some people have made some shims for making
> > it worth with alsa, but they don't look sustainable.
> > 
> > As the other poster said, this endeavor is likely to result in frustration.
> > You may get it to 'work' for some value of that word, but depending on
> > expectations, it may not be worth your while.
> > 
> 
> HI all,
> 
> thanks for the repsonse.
> 
> I am using waterfox, which is not in portage. The mentioning of 
> Forefox was onlu to make its heritage clear.
> 
> I already have some "experiences" make, when it comes to other things
> for audio than alsa.
> 
> Background to my question:
> I am still searching for a equalizer solution, which does not
> uses the eq provided by the hardware (I am using a DAC, which
> does nothing else, than converting PCM into an analog signal.
> No processing whatsoever.
> 
> So the eq has to have some sort of DSP funktionality build in.
> 
> And it should be made for background processing.
> 
> Anu helpful alsa-based idea is very appreciated...
> 
> Cheers!
> Meino

I use Jack and I use Firefox with Jack. It works (mostly) without any problems.
Only when you have really a lot sound related tabs (maybe more than 6 active sound sources or so, Firefox makes new jack channels per tab), Firefox slows down a little bit.

I also very much recommend to use media-sound/cadence together with jack. There is also a version compatible with ladish (a jack session manager) in the audio-overlay [1].

media-sound/jack-rack for example provides certain equalizers.

Best,
Gerion

[1] https://github.com/gentoo-audio/audio-overlay/

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