From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (woodpecker.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D28F15807A for ; Thu, 05 Jun 2025 16:18:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.gentoo.org (bobolink.gentoo.org [140.211.166.189]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: relay-lists.gentoo.org@gentoo.org) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 512EB3431AA for ; Thu, 05 Jun 2025 16:18:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bobolink.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bobolink.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E2CE1104B3; Thu, 05 Jun 2025 16:17:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lf1-x130.google.com (mail-lf1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by bobolink.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A9D61102BE for ; Thu, 05 Jun 2025 16:17:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lf1-x130.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-5532bb8687dso82145e87.2 for ; Thu, 05 Jun 2025 09:17:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1749140224; x=1749745024; darn=lists.gentoo.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=ad/0frLCI6PtvYI16DtboYDzpdCSGkHvBjJfengbjFM=; b=gRe9hbESN2r7UezwWs+CRyD/nyhSxioDWxI8b5mqMRpEtiwS9VNuP6XfTHO0aVXUES IkLwYaNjm+FIa5tZ9zHfk6Lchj1g8U4Qq13olT1Z7Ga6e+TKMEE3wORJCLUWFHg3cfRq eGGDTj2+waH+Z0kdF9gnyGBFGZ1aLLUcJYk6yzKF5OC81UsmCUBHoB+YgqpWgApHV+Ju pWZsPckZ9Zlutw1f9V5m76BHsHSNEY6z5FJYfQ/Tt24KIz6TMNyI2HDG0FSyB2wJhhJY DMxi7L+S+nppzadji8cpm/gFZ6H9IORVN6O3U+O0BMlVy3l6ZzuNek5xuv/cY8UK+U7c phnA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1749140224; x=1749745024; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ad/0frLCI6PtvYI16DtboYDzpdCSGkHvBjJfengbjFM=; b=aNOPKZDbEF/9cm3Ez2C/47w6Mi+U4RAj+pXPToPRNFBby1d0buHyl+veeFA5iL5Bbs XKhi9EYMsd5ke8yphHrIclbLTgyP5c0yknreIEmLkYbDH6ukZpW8B/v82iB8bZIy51WD kZtmPE+qqhiJEVP9YUJECANGq0WTq+7yzenNPVijceGQoAaAg8UaduPtk+dk2GrB3OXb ZhYr2bv0xfAQchiV9oBV/sbATgcpHCSCT5ZGYeFRmQZSu1Nxqqg/Jd1kDhf0pNnX7hA7 PpOH9U85yPsXFZd7eX6MoViNL8azrfMQ4v1LjC9vjhUyHHfvCmPyms+FlwhCpqVu9R+6 wr9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyBsnqVFG+Igis/qxeW1zoV/67YCu/KjlIexg0CgZcHiQFTp0Or L5iQoItNe+r5R2pWnc0CbqpFcQlUGvdSO92hWsBX7s6Z4p0hahYSTNNoXNkWfFwO0lNJclvI1oX FJFuxuw1nXGkQg3PLeamWVFpbSIjGeoAlvg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuhSfUk5dwIvH1rS+SkwmoxP6hrNpu4QNP6vTNEqV1W7FuM8gjOHqczko1+Uh5 kB0F52tfCwPeUoFEXnQEz44aqt03rPalNfS0V/jKR3HYgPZgdujVKwBXbZKwBo00NJcYHzwpgdk eWZ3AHtM4YHPft5ZDj2sikDcRcGtDdb6hG X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGyEPiiQWFiY2M1lJl/h+Q8EHq4FOscK8LgtXm+I/1HQJAHyioZLV3OLKRl4f9WQjk7V425UsGdY5HEeuQsBhE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:e94:b0:551:fdb6:4135 with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-55356c0484cmr835203e87.12.1749140223751; Thu, 05 Jun 2025 09:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1a0acd33-22d2-d378-6d8d-87a5302242f8@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mark Knecht Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2025 09:16:50 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AX0GCFsEsk3CEAurYRVgZUdt__HJuaqRm6XonehJEJlCdqz0J2r8Wmj736s6rwQ Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Books about making shell scripts and other nifty commands. To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 71d24bfd-1b42-4dd8-a402-a9f601c49b40 X-Archives-Hash: bda7f666482600540fa0c2a9cb74a527 On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 9:03=E2=80=AFAM Eli Schwartz = wrote: > > On 6/5/25 11:32 AM, Mark Knecht wrote: > > A book is one way to go, especially if someone trusted recommends > > the title. > > > > As for me - and this isn't bash scripting - but I've learned Python jus= t > > using videos on YouTube coupled with asking AI Helpers {Chat GTP, > > Gemini, Claude, Deepseek, Copilot} either questions I want answered > > or, more importantly, providing it with some code I wrote and asking it > > two basic questions: > > > > 1) What does this code do? > > > > 2) Are there any problems this code might cause or side effects I > > should be aware of? > > > > Those two questions plus a copy of my real data I want to work on > > so that it doesn't make a mistake and delete or corrupt my real data > > have allowed me to make a lot of progress without spending a > > penny. I suspect this would work well for you if it suits your learning > > style. > > > > I see plenty of videos on YouTube about bash scripting. > > > > All of the AI helpers will answer 20-30 questions a day for free so > > there's no cost involved, and you can ask each of them the same > > questions to get multiple points of view on solving your problems. > > > Artificial non-intelligence is based on a sophisticated > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Libs generator. It is a program > designed to produce pseudorandom output streams with a weight towards > grammatically correct output. > > It possesses no knowledge or reasoning and literally *cannot* possess > the attribute of being correct. It is very good at superficially looking > correct. Whether or not it actually is correct is up to a roll of the dic= e. > > Any knowledgeable AI user will tell you: AI *cannot* be safely used > unless you already know what you are doing and can review the results > before running it. AI proponents find AI useful to reduce the manual > labor involved in writing the script -- ***not*** for figuring out the > correct thing to do. This is an iterative process of rejecting answers > that look wrong and tweaking the prompt, getting the AI to try again and > again until it gets the right answer. > > DO NOT USE AI AS A TEACHER. YOU WILL BREAK YOUR SYSTEM IRREPARABLY. > > You will delete all your data by accident. > > You will be the latest example of a foolish fool posting on Reddit in > tears, asking if there is any way to recover years worth of labor that > wasn't backed up properly. > > You will learn nothing, or you will learn how to write incorrect and > buggy scripts because you aren't able to evaluate which answers are > hallucinations. > > > -- > Eli Schwartz I sense a certain overriding fear about the future... As I said, lots of videos on YouTube supplemented by AI and tested on copies of data or test machines. Additionally I did give some guidance on how Dale might, if he was to use these tools, double check the results before committing a grievous error on his hardware. He could ask other AI's that did not produce the code in question what it does. He could post it here for comments and improvements. Running scared is, to me, silly. Dale wants to learn. That's great and these tools are one way to approach the problem. I'm using them successfully every day of the week. Once I learned how to ask questions correctly I found they don't hallucinate much, at least with Python coding. I have built my own AI's for recognizing playing cards. No way would I have made this progress without the help I got from these tools. Purchasing a book is a great thing to do, as I said before, if it is recommended by someone trusted. (Or if you have money to burn and shelf space for collecting dust after the 2 hours you use it.) To each his own. I agree with you in general - don't trust AI with anything important. If you prefer then 'trust but verify'.