[gentoo-user] new machine : on-going frustration

[gentoo-user] new machine : on-going frustration

[Philip Webb]

Back in April 2022, I asked for advice here re parts for a new machine (ANB6)
& got some very helpful info (thanks to everyone).
Since then, it hasn't worked out very well
& I'm still relying on my 7-year-old machine (ANB5).

I want an AMD CPU, based on past experience ;
I prefer a Gigabyte mobo ditto, but will consider other makes.
I would like to have PCIe 4.0 , which is much faster than 3.0 ,
to improve Gentoo compile times ; I don't do gaming.
I would like to avoid a separate graphics card,
which are expensive & seem today to be designed for gaming enthusiasts.
I want to buy from a physical store, not delivered by an on-line order,
in case there's a defect, so that I can easily take it back to the store.

Looking at the offerings from Canada Computers, my most convenient store,
which I have used for all  5  of my previous home-built machines,
my impression is that if you get PCIe 4.0 ,
you don't get CPU graphics, but have to buy a separate graphics card ;
if you have built-in graphics in the CPU, you get only PCIe 3.0.

I might be willing to get an Intel CPU,
but in their specifications there's no mention of PCIe (3 or 4) :
is this an accident or are PCIe's confined to AMD ?
Intel seems to be a quite different world from AMD today.

Does anyone have any useful advice or suggestions ?

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : on-going frustration

[Mark Knecht]

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On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 1:13 PM Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
>
> Back in April 2022, I asked for advice here re parts for a new machine
(ANB6)
> & got some very helpful info (thanks to everyone).
> Since then, it hasn't worked out very well
> & I'm still relying on my 7-year-old machine (ANB5).
>
> I want an AMD CPU, based on past experience ;
> I prefer a Gigabyte mobo ditto, but will consider other makes.
> I would like to have PCIe 4.0 , which is much faster than 3.0 ,
> to improve Gentoo compile times ; I don't do gaming.
> I would like to avoid a separate graphics card,
> which are expensive & seem today to be designed for gaming enthusiasts.
> I want to buy from a physical store, not delivered by an on-line order,
> in case there's a defect, so that I can easily take it back to the store.
>
> Looking at the offerings from Canada Computers, my most convenient store,
> which I have used for all  5  of my previous home-built machines,
> my impression is that if you get PCIe 4.0 ,
> you don't get CPU graphics, but have to buy a separate graphics card ;
> if you have built-in graphics in the CPU, you get only PCIe 3.0.
>
> I might be willing to get an Intel CPU,
> but in their specifications there's no mention of PCIe (3 or 4) :
> is this an accident or are PCIe's confined to AMD ?
> Intel seems to be a quite different world from AMD today.
>
> Does anyone have any useful advice or suggestions ?
>
> --
> ========================,,============================================
> SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
> ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
> TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
>

Look for an AMD X570 chipset MB. I think you can find what you're looking
for.

HTH,
Mark

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Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : on-going frustration

[Mark Knecht]

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On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 1:45 PM Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 1:13 PM Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> >
<SNIP>
>
> Look for an AMD X570 chipset MB. I think you can find what you're looking
for.
>
> HTH,
> Mark

>
BTW - I don't think PCIe 4.0 would, in this sort of machine, have much to
do with compile times. This level of machine has an NVMe flash drive
for the system disk. My machine has 2 1TB NVMe SSDs and no
mechanical drives.

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Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : a lot clearer

[Philip Webb]

220915 Mark Knecht wrote:
> I don't think PCIe 4.0 would, in this sort of machine,
> have much to do with compile times.
> This level of machine has an NVMe flash drive for the system disk.
> My machine has 2 x 1 TB NVMe SSDs and no mechanical drives.

Thanks lots : that's the crucial advice I was looking for.

I've reviewed what's available at local stores again (Downtown is closest) :

CPU + Mobo : available 220914
 ( D downtown  M midtown  N NYork  S Scarboro  d delivery ; o openbox ) :

CPU : must incl graphix + cooler

AMD :

  (1) CPAMD00130 : Ryzen 5 : 5600G : $ 187 (350)
   6-Core/12-Thread : 7 nm : PCIe 3.0
   Socket AM4 : 3.9 GHz , boost 4.4 GHz
   Radeon Graphics : Wraith Stealth Cooler : 65 W 
  Available 220915 : D  5   M  5   N 10   S  7   d  y

  (2) CPAMD00141 : Ryzen 5 : 4600G : $ 200
   6-Core/12-Thread : 7 nm : PCIe ? (sb 3.0)
   Socket AM4 : 3.7 GHz , boost 4.2 GHz 
   Radeon Graphics : Wraith Stealth Cooler : 65 W
  Available 220915 : D  1   M  -   N  1   S  -   d  y

  (3) CPAMD00131 : Ryzen 7 : 5700G : $ 310 (470) : *** looks best ***
   8-Core/16-Thread : 7 nm : PCIe 3.0
   Socket AM4 : 3.8 GHz , boost 4.6 GHz 
   Radeon Graphics : Wraith Stealth cooler : 65 W
  Available 220915 : D  1   M  1   N  1   S  1   d  y

Intel : lowest price w  8  cores ;
  doesn't look competitive : 14 nm ; no fan ; $ 110 > AMD 00131 ;
  installation challenges : Intel pins are on the mobo, so damage easier ;
   it used to be more of a challenge to fit the fan on the CPU w Intel.

  (1) CPINT00159 : Intel Core i9-11900K : $ 420 (600) : *** not attractive ***
   8-Core/16-Thread : 14 nm : Socket LGA 1200
   (Intel 500 + select 400 Series) Unlocked
   3.5 GHz , turbo 5.3 GHz : 11th
   UHD Graphics 750 : 125 W : no cooler ?
  Available 220919 : D  2   M  1   N  -   S  -   d  y

Mobo: AMD : *** not clear there's much difference ***

  (1) MBGIG00135 : Gigabyte : X570 AORUS ELITE : $ 220 (300)
   12+2 Phase Digital VRM with DrMOS
   Advanced Thermal Design with Enlarge Heatsink
   Dual PCIe 4.0 M.2 w Single Thermal Guard
   Intel GbE LAN w cFosSpeed, Front USB Type-C, RGB Fusion 2.0
  Available 220914 : D  3   M  4   N  6   S  3   d  y

  (2) MBGIG00261 : Gigabyte : X570S AORUS ELITE : $ 250 (330)
   AX AMD X570 DDR4
   Wi-Fi 6E : Bluetooth
   PCIe 4.0 M.2 : USB 3.2 : ATX
  Available 220914 : D  4   M  2   N  9   S  2   d  y

  (3) MBGIG00260 : Gigabyte : X570S AORUS PRO : $ 280 (390)
   AX Socket AM4 AMD X570 DDR4
   Wi-Fi 6 Bluetooth
   PCIe 4.0 M.2 : USB 3.2 : ATX
  Available 220914 : D  2   M  2   N  5   S  1   d  y

  (4) MBGIG00242 : Gigabyte : X570S AERO G : $ 300 (470)
   AMD X570 : 4 x DDR4 DIMM : 128 GB
   Intel Wi-Fi 6E
   PCIe 4.0 : USB Type-C M.2
  Available 220914 : D  2   M  1   N  1   S  1   d  y

-- end of review --

Intel seems to offer inferior product for higher price : comparison only.

AMD : I want  8  cores with  16  threads.
I want graphics + cooling included with the CPU.
PCIe 3.0 is adequate for what I do : with  32 GB  memory
everything sb compilable there with no need to use the SSD ;
ANB5 (my present machine) has DDR3, so ANB6's DDR4 wb faster.
Price differences aren't important in themselves among these choices.
There is free WiFi where I live, tho' landline mb better for security.

Thanks for the advice so far : further comments are very welcome.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : on-going frustration

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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Am Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 04:13:19PM -0400 schrieb Philip Webb:

> Since then, it hasn't worked out very well
> & I'm still relying on my 7-year-old machine (ANB5).

What hasn’t worked out specifically?

> I would like to have PCIe 4.0 , which is much faster than 3.0 ,
> to improve Gentoo compile times ; I don't do gaming.

As Mark already mentioned – PCIe speed has no impact on compile times. It’s
only used for communication between CPU and {GPU, NVMe, Chipset}, or between
GPU and RAM.

> I want to buy from a physical store, not delivered by an on-line order,
> in case there's a defect, so that I can easily take it back to the store.

So you built the Ryzen system we talked about, and now want to start over?

> my impression is that if you get PCIe 4.0 , you don't get CPU graphics,
> but have to buy a separate graphics card ;
> if you have built-in graphics in the CPU, you get only PCIe 3.0.

That’s the way with AM3-socket APUs. It won’t be with AM4, but those are
probably still a year away (at least half a year).

Also, the new AM4 CPUs all have a basic iGPU inside, much like most Intels
have had until now. They won’t be much to write home about, but will be
sufficient for office and desktop.

> I might be willing to get an Intel CPU,
> but in their specifications there's no mention of PCIe (3 or 4) :
> is this an accident or are PCIe's confined to AMD ?

When I need such information, I like to go to Wikipedia. It has everything
under one roof, often in very similar formats for both vendors. Here’s a
description of Intel’s recent generation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alder_Lake
And as you can see, those have 16×PCIe 5 for the graphics slot and another
4×4.0, probably for NVMe. The chipset is connected via Intel’s proprietary
DMI and connects to more mass storage, USB etc.

> Does anyone have any useful advice or suggestions ?

Well, we suggested stuff and advised on things. Please elaborate what hasn’t
worked out for you and why.

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