From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B632613829B for ; Sun, 29 May 2016 23:58:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B5563142A6; Sun, 29 May 2016 23:58:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vk0-f50.google.com (mail-vk0-f50.google.com [209.85.213.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5083721C01D for ; Sun, 29 May 2016 23:58:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vk0-f50.google.com with SMTP id k1so148951712vka.3 for ; Sun, 29 May 2016 16:58:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=gUnqIydSEAF+cG6moTVbiNmBlMVug0Ng9REiOTKh5k4=; b=DdXTbSAL+0gaZJvLW2N3z/8mQ4JLbL4XwxGVtUOzcTSRCg8PwGH32IjVo2mxZJkzIT 1ppdM+O3EGQkD+Sr9qj2s0ODHJ4qnCOaspvw4EUMVJX9rl10SU/r9p5HJ9Pqxb1tsTsh /g27Z3wJR3b34dCESMAb0dHF/cjOpEEg7p4lL5wMSA9f0wNAfIrFzgYLpK8P02xnj4HR yib58yagGfUI1k+hZhiK2vPs+yR358g7LP1/bg47jxXVRFZBo6FjSyzud3SCuwxTmyQn 0bUNdS1ENMbLAjOvohiDp+UzFT7LKhDWcWgkpeCJb18h4YbCMVLRBEJMuyXfAvMgltr8 45cw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to; bh=gUnqIydSEAF+cG6moTVbiNmBlMVug0Ng9REiOTKh5k4=; b=Ovgj6B/fXcvei7oghh1fRshv4nff+00VVMHC2chknKiIKgUK4Q+SsmySEeae1IhViH IMgF3zivrmrQ9b+NuAhbokX2Dig52837G6o1C6RNTPpfn3Bk09DYt3ioFXmCIbcn5Toe V+IODg5tvIgBUzVdhp5nIFMASQKmC+zLeq95MwGG9b8xfXAb3lls8bU5+MIlPjVeWy5j 19IrqcZVX6uOoj8wQdUU5DqSWk//N9g6jt+rC0z1Hyl/mlhQ0Qu1r8sg2mCsZIiOG+Hk dXdoTd+Qut5/LLDdxLve08TqpjR68c3vtsMk7nZAXngt4ZnFMFkdRnwa8/a2OoHL2tBB axlQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tICDXaSUBJHcyjrrlVDoNJeFPg5CWHjUK0jo8EM05yUoKdEYEU9aDVbRMEQ1mwKkj9eEl2HelE+ZS0oTQ== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.159.36.147 with SMTP id 19mr13542525uar.98.1464566292206; Sun, 29 May 2016 16:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.103.129.79 with HTTP; Sun, 29 May 2016 16:58:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <574ADCCF.9000602@verizon.net> References: <5749C1AE.5020905@verizon.net> <20160528111929.503f9bbd@sepulchrave.remarqs> <5749D00C.4030408@gmail.com> <5749E469.7020601@gmail.com> <5749E832.1030404@gmail.com> <5749F761.7020803@googlemail.com> <20160528215322.12a267c2@digimed.co.uk> <574ADCCF.9000602@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 29 May 2016 19:58:12 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] How to be a penguin. From: Gregory Woodbury To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113dff4098dc56053403e9a2 X-Archives-Salt: 0f818be1-487e-4626-9fe2-76d874b6afc4 X-Archives-Hash: b9882a66106319299eef319400d585d9 --001a113dff4098dc56053403e9a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Alan Grimes wrote: > Gregory Woodbury wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 4:53 PM, Neil Bothwick > > wrote: > > > > On Sat, 28 May 2016 21:54:09 +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > > > > thanks a lot. My eyes are bleeding. > > > > Serves you right for being daft enough to read it again! > > > > I'd suggest that Alan RTFM for the commands he uses, but that > > would be a > > waste of keystrokes. > > > > > > I have to agree with ng0 > > > > WOW! > > > > Alan just wants to start it and walk away, as if Gentoo was a binary > > distribution > > that handles it all upstream. He doesn't want to take the time to > > review what > > emerge is proposing and see if changes are needed first. > > You know what? fuck you. That's what. > You really shouldn't say things like that. Some might consider it harassment, and others might take you up on the offer; you never can tell. > > The update list it's proposing is 403 packages, or roughly 25% of my > system. > What the...? Do you have every package there is installed? The worst updates I have seen are only 40-50 packages. 403 being 25% implies around 1600 - 1700 packages. Actually that seems about right, but why are you getting that many updates? You may have maladjusted USE flags or keywords to make portage think that many need an update. I'm running with ~amd64 set and I check updates once a day. > > Hey Alan: Gentoo is NOT a start an update and walk away setup. Some human > > mind needs to be involved if troubles arise. Also, read make.conf(5) > > and set up > > the various variables correctly; PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET should only have > > one python version set. > > DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK I'M THAT STUPID??? SERIOUSLY???? > The output from the script that Dale re-posted clearly shows emerge complaining about PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET being wrong for a dependency expression in the ebuild involved. That speaks for itself. > Furthermore, the current portage doesn't require the revdep-rebuild > > step because > > of the @preserved-rebuild set creation. > > That missfeature is incompatible with how I use my system. I have not > reformatted my hard drive in six years. > What does reformatting a hard drive have to do with it? I have an installation that has been running on one partition since 2011, when I had to build a new computer system after a flood. It does look like I'm going to do a reinstall for KDE5 Plasma because too much KDE4 stuff hanging around seems to make the desktop unstable. It might take a few hours to do that. > The principle way I accomplish that is by prohibiting the growth of > cruft in the system. I cannot tolerate the accumulation of back versions > anywhere in the system except where absolutely necessary. So if it is > possible to re-build broken packages against new versions, I demand that > take place > as quickly as possible such that the system is left in the most pristine > and self-consistent state possible. --- secret of immortality, dude. =\ > > Gentoo used to be superlatively excellent at that. > > > In any case, to try and force things through without looking at what > > problems are occuring > > is just (excuse my language) batshit crazy stupid. > > You > dumb. > shit. > > You literally have no fucking clue do you? > You have no idea... I have been using UNIX and UNIX-like systems since 1977. I've been involved in UNIX and Linux for 40 years. I've written drivers, scripts, init systems and lots of other stuff, some of which is still hanging around yet. I guess it tickles your fancy to tell people who know more than you that they don't have a "clue" when it is clear that you are ignoring the advice and guidance they are offering. Others in this thread have offered advice and commentary, clearly explaining why your methods are out-of-whack. But I do like watching the logs and builds scroll by -- one does learn some interesting interactions occasionally. [For example: don't build virtualbox with more than -j2 because there is a missing dependency in the Makefile.] For long builds, tailing or lessing the logfiles are easy, and can be done in another tab of the terminal program. I also have keep-going in my default Emerge options, along with --ask and --verbose; but when a build falters I can go look at the saved logfile and see exactly what went wrong, and usually figure out how to fix it. Most of the time is is a USE flag mixup, and occasionally a missing RDEPEND or DEPEND -- those get reported on Bugzilla. I add a fair number of USE flags to the profile via make.conf, but some don't belong there, but rather in package.use. I take advantage of the ability for package.use to be a directory, and place package specific USE flags in appropriately named files within that directory. Interestingly, the KDE5 Plasma re-install (which is almost done) has fewer package specific flags than KDE4. [I prefer KDE and its flexibility to the "this is what we say you will use" attitude of GNOME. Also, I keep an LXDE and XFCE setup in the mix, just to remain flexible.] But I am sure you don't care that I don't have the problems you have, even if I am using the same basic tools. It seems that you would rather whine and complain that the tool is at fault, instead of heeding the advice that you are not using it correctly. Would you also chop firewood with the broadside of an ax? > -- G.Wolfe Woodbury redwolfe@gmail.com --001a113dff4098dc56053403e9a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Alan Grimes <ALONZOTG@verizon.net<= /a>> wrote:
Gr= egory Woodbury wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 4:53 PM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk
> <mailto:neil@digimed.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Sat, 28 May 2016 21:54:09 +0200, Volker Armin He= mmann wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> thanks a lot. My eyes are bleeding.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Serves you right for being daft enough to read it a= gain!
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I'd suggest that Alan RTFM for the commands he = uses, but that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0would be a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0waste of keystrokes.
>
>
> I have to agree with ng0
>
> WOW!
>
> Alan just wants to start it and walk away, as if Gentoo was a binary > distribution
> that handles it all upstream.=C2=A0 He doesn't want to take the ti= me to
> review what
> emerge is proposing and see if changes are needed first.

You know what? fuck you.=C2=A0 That's what.

You really shouldn't say things like that. Some might c= onsider it harassment, and others
might take you up on the offer;= you never can tell.
=C2=A0

The update list it's proposing is 403 packages, or roughly 25% of my system.

What the...?
Do you h= ave every package there is installed?=C2=A0 The worst updates I have seen
are only 40-50 packages. =C2=A0403 being 25% implies around 1600 -= 1700 packages.
Actually that seems about right, but why are you = getting that many updates? You
may have maladjusted USE flags or = keywords to make portage think that many
need an update.=C2=A0 I&= #39;m running with ~amd64 set and I check updates once a day.
=C2= =A0
> Hey Alan: Gentoo is NOT a start an update and walk away setup. Some hu= man
> mind needs to be involved if troubles arise.=C2=A0 Also, read make.con= f(5)
> and set up
> the various variables correctly; PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET should only have=
> one python version set.

DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK I'M THAT STUPID??? SERIOUSLY????
<= /blockquote>

The output from the script that Dale re-pos= ted clearly shows emerge complaining
about PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET b= eing wrong for a dependency expression
in the ebuild involved.=C2= =A0 That speaks for itself.=C2=A0

> Furthermore, the current portage doesn't require the revdep-rebuil= d
> step because
> of the @preserved-rebuild set creation.

That missfeature is incompatible with how I use my system. I have no= t
reformatted my hard drive in six years.

What does reformatting a hard drive have to do with it? I have an installa= tion that
has been running on one partition since 2011, when I ha= d to build a new computer
system after a flood.=C2=A0 It does loo= k like I'm going to do a reinstall for KDE5 Plasma=C2=A0
beca= use too much KDE4 stuff hanging around seems to make the desktop
= unstable.=C2=A0 It might take a few hours to do that.
=C2=A0
The principle way I accomplish that is by prohibiting the growth of
cruft in the system. I cannot tolerate the accumulation of back versions anywhere in the system except where absolutely necessary. So if it is
possible to re-build broken packages against new versions, I demand that take place
as quickly as possible such that the system is left in the most pristine and self-consistent state possible. --- secret of immortality, dude. =3D\
Gentoo used to be superlatively excellent at that.

> In any case, to try and force things through without looking at what > problems are occuring
> is just (excuse my language) batshit crazy stupid.

You
dumb.
shit.

You literally have no fucking clue do you?

<= div>You have no idea...
I have been using UNIX and UNIX-like syst= ems since 1977. I've been involved
in UNIX and Linux for 40 y= ears. I've written drivers, scripts, init systems and lots
of= other stuff, some of which is still hanging around yet.=C2=A0
I guess it tickles your fancy to tell people who know more tha= n you that they
don't have a "clue" when it is clea= r that you are ignoring the advice and guidance
they are offering= .

Others in this thread have offered advice and co= mmentary, clearly explaining
why your methods are out-of-whack.= =C2=A0 But I do like watching the logs and builds
scroll by -- on= e does learn some interesting interactions occasionally. [For example:
don't build virtualbox with more than -j2 because there is a miss= ing dependency in
the Makefile.] =C2=A0For long builds, tailing o= r lessing the logfiles are easy, and can be
done in another tab o= f the terminal program. I also have keep-going in my default
Emer= ge options, along with --ask and --verbose; but when a build falters I can<= /div>
go look at the saved logfile and see exactly what went wrong, and= usually figure out=C2=A0
how to fix it. Most of the time is is a= USE flag mixup, and occasionally a missing
RDEPEND or DEPEND -- = those get reported on Bugzilla.

I add a fair numbe= r of USE flags to the profile via make.conf, but some don't belong
there, but rather in package.use.=C2=A0 I take advantage of the abili= ty for package.use to
be a directory, and place package specific = USE flags in appropriately named files
within that directory.=C2= =A0 Interestingly, the KDE5 Plasma re-install (which is almost done)
<= div>has fewer package specific flags than KDE4. [I prefer KDE and its flexi= bility to the
"this is what we say you will use" attitu= de of GNOME. Also, I keep an LXDE and XFCE
setup in the mix, just= to remain flexible.]

But I am sure you don't = care that I don't have the problems you have, even if I am
us= ing the same basic tools. =C2=A0 It seems that you would rather whine and c= omplain
that the tool is at fault, instead of heeding the advice = that you are not using it
correctly. Would you also chop firewood= with the broadside of an ax?


=

--=C2=A0
G.Wolfe Woodbury
--001a113dff4098dc56053403e9a2--