[gentoo-user] [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[gentoo-user] [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Francisco Ares]

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Hello All,

I know this is WAY off- topic, but I have seen topics in many different
areas, probably some gentooers will be glad to share experiences.

I am trying to create some videos for a M$ Office presentation. Some are
from "recordmydesktop", which produces an OGG video, that I have to
convert, so "Powerpoint" will open it without complaining. (I know the
trick about renaming the video file to AVI extension, but this does not
work always)

So I would like to know witch is the best/correct codec to encode/convert a
video file for proper use with M$ Powerpoint.

I have being using this script for testing:

#! /bin/bash
mencoder "$1" -oac pcm -ovc lavc -lavcopts
vcodec=ffv1:vbitrate=1200:vme=4:mbd=2:v4mv:dia=-1 -ofps 25 -o test.avi

Any ideas/suggestions?

Thanks a lot
Francisco

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Michael Mol]

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On Dec 29, 2012 9:08 PM, "Francisco Ares" <frares@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> I know this is WAY off- topic, but I have seen topics in many different
areas, probably some gentooers will be glad to share experiences.
>
> I am trying to create some videos for a M$ Office presentation. Some are
from "recordmydesktop", which produces an OGG video, that I have to
convert, so "Powerpoint" will open it without complaining. (I know the
trick about renaming the video file to AVI extension, but this does not
work always)
>
> So I would like to know witch is the best/correct codec to encode/convert
a video file for proper use with M$ Powerpoint.
>
> I have being using this script for testing:
>
> #! /bin/bash
> mencoder "$1" -oac pcm -ovc lavc -lavcopts
vcodec=ffv1:vbitrate=1200:vme=4:mbd=2:v4mv:dia=-1 -ofps 25 -o test.avi
>
> Any ideas/suggestions?
>
> Thanks a lot
> Francisco

At this point, probably h.264+mpeg 2 layer 3, in an mp4 container.

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[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Nuno J. Silva]

On 2012-12-30, Francisco Ares wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I know this is WAY off- topic, but I have seen topics in many different
> areas, probably some gentooers will be glad to share experiences.
>
> I am trying to create some videos for a M$ Office presentation. Some are
> from "recordmydesktop", which produces an OGG video, that I have to
> convert, so "Powerpoint" will open it without complaining. (I know the
> trick about renaming the video file to AVI extension, but this does not
> work always)
>
> So I would like to know witch is the best/correct codec to encode/convert a
> video file for proper use with M$ Powerpoint.
>
> I have being using this script for testing:
>
> #! /bin/bash
> mencoder "$1" -oac pcm -ovc lavc -lavcopts
> vcodec=ffv1:vbitrate=1200:vme=4:mbd=2:v4mv:dia=-1 -ofps 25 -o test.avi
>
> Any ideas/suggestions?

Keep in mind that the support for videos in powerpoint presentations
will vary greatly across different powerpoint versions, windows versions
and even across different installs of the same versions. Even if you
manage to get a version of powerpoint to "like" the container and
codecs, it may not work on all computers.

The AVI container has been used by windows for a long time, so I'd say
chances are that it will work on more systems, but I can't say for sure.


-- 
Nuno Silva (aka njsg)
http://njsg.sdf-eu.org/

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Francisco Ares]

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2012/12/30 Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt>

> On 2012-12-30, Francisco Ares wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > ...
>
> Keep in mind that the support for videos in powerpoint presentations
> will vary greatly across different powerpoint versions, windows versions
> and even across different installs of the same versions. Even if you
> manage to get a version of powerpoint to "like" the container and
> codecs, it may not work on all computers.
>
> The AVI container has been used by windows for a long time, so I'd say
> chances are that it will work on more systems, but I can't say for sure.
>
>
> --
> Nuno Silva (aka njsg)
> http://njsg.sdf-eu.org/
>
>
>

Thanks for the advice.  I know that, have already been caught in that
pitfall. That is why I always carry a free viewer of the same version as
the one I build the presentation (sigh!!), a bunch of video codecs (K-Lite)
and, in case everything fails, a portable VLC.

If my colleagues would at least be kind enough to have OpenOffice installed
on their machines also...

Thanks again
Francisco

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Kevin Chadwick]

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 21:35:52 -0200
Francisco Ares <frares@gmail.com> wrote:

> If my colleagues would at least be kind enough to have OpenOffice
> installed on their machines also...

Will they let you boot a usb?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Francisco Ares]

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2012/12/31 Kevin Chadwick <ma1l1ists@yahoo.co.uk>

> On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 21:35:52 -0200
> Francisco Ares <frares@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If my colleagues would at least be kind enough to have OpenOffice
> > installed on their machines also...
>
> Will they let you boot a usb?
>
>
I don't think so. Most of them are very basic level users, and they just
have to have the same software, and it's gotta be from M$ - nothing out of
main stream.

But what is your point?

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Kevin Chadwick]

On Tue, 1 Jan 2013 13:16:25 -0200
Francisco Ares <frares@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't think so. Most of them are very basic level users, and they
> just have to have the same software, and it's gotta be from M$ -
> nothing out of main stream.
> 
> But what is your point?

Boot an OS with office that works and as long as you can boot it should
be a near certainty of working. PDF presentations may be another option
to investigate but I imagine you may hit problems.

I've found mpeg2 to be the most likely supported video format but still
not quite run everywhere. There isn't one. Hopefully webm will do one
day, it is the only decent one with compression that can.

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Nuno J. Silva]

On 2012-12-31, Francisco Ares wrote:

> 2012/12/30 Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt>
>
>> On 2012-12-30, Francisco Ares wrote:
[...]
>> Keep in mind that the support for videos in powerpoint presentations
>> will vary greatly across different powerpoint versions, windows versions
>> and even across different installs of the same versions. Even if you
>> manage to get a version of powerpoint to "like" the container and
>> codecs, it may not work on all computers.
>>
>> The AVI container has been used by windows for a long time, so I'd say
>> chances are that it will work on more systems, but I can't say for sure.
>>
>
> Thanks for the advice.  I know that, have already been caught in that
> pitfall. That is why I always carry a free viewer of the same version as
> the one I build the presentation (sigh!!), a bunch of video codecs (K-Lite)
> and, in case everything fails, a portable VLC.
>
> If my colleagues would at least be kind enough to have OpenOffice installed
> on their machines also...

Perhaps a portable version of OpenOffice/LibreOffice? There used to be
one from PortableApps.com(?), it will be big, heavy, but should at least
work. But I don't know whether it offers universal support for some
specific codec. If it relies on Video For Windows, then it will be as
good as PowerPoint.

-- 
Nuno Silva (aka njsg)
http://njsg.sdf-eu.org/

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Francisco Ares]

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2012/12/30 Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt>

> On 2012-12-30, Francisco Ares wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > ...
>
> Keep in mind that the support for videos in powerpoint presentations
> will vary greatly across different powerpoint versions, windows versions
> and even across different installs of the same versions. Even if you
> manage to get a version of powerpoint to "like" the container and
> codecs, it may not work on all computers.
>
> The AVI container has been used by windows for a long time, so I'd say
> chances are that it will work on more systems, but I can't say for sure.
>
>
> --
> Nuno Silva (aka njsg)
> http://njsg.sdf-eu.org/
>
>
>
Thanks, Nuno, gonna try it.

-- 
Francisco
"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you
and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have
one idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas."
- George Bernard Shaw

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Stroller]

On 30 December 2012, at 11:39, Nuno J. Silva wrote:
> ...
> The AVI container has been used by windows for a long time, so I'd say
> chances are that it will work on more systems, but I can't say for sure.

But h264 in an AVI is invalid.

AVI is dated and just plain nasty.

You should use something else (like h264 in an MP4) if you possibly can.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Francisco Ares]

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2012/12/31 Stroller <stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk>

>
> On 30 December 2012, at 11:39, Nuno J. Silva wrote:
> > ...
> > The AVI container has been used by windows for a long time, so I'd say
> > chances are that it will work on more systems, but I can't say for sure.
>
> But h264 in an AVI is invalid.
>
> AVI is dated and just plain nasty.
>
> You should use something else (like h264 in an MP4) if you possibly can.
>
> Stroller.
>
>
I've heard (or read) that before, to me it seems quite strange that one of
the main products from MS to be so outdated in this area.

I tried an MP4 renamed as AVI, and it worked. I don't know yet if it will
work on my mates' computers, because I have installed K-Lite codecs, and
they didn't (yet, at least).

Thanks
Francisco

-- 
"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you
and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have
one idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas."
- George Bernard Shaw

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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Stroller]

On 1 January 2013, at 15:22, Francisco Ares wrote:
> ...
> I've heard (or read) that before, to me it seems quite strange that one of the main products from MS to be so outdated in this area.

AVI has been around a long time. It is inevitably prone to "bitrot", then. 

AIUI the AVI specification states a number of valid codecs that can be used; AIUI h264 (for example) is not amongst them.

It will work on some systems (particularly open source) to put h264 / AAC into an AVI - that's not supported on others. So if you need to play the video on a Mac, a games console or a set-top box then you may be in trouble. 

As a rule of thumb, most new video-playing devices have hardware h264 support; use .mp4 or .mkv for h264.

> I tried an MP4 renamed as AVI, and it worked.

If you merely renamed the file then you didn't change the container.

http://html5.xoofoo.org/video.html

A Linux video player will probably ignore the file extension - it'll figure out what kind of container you used based on the file's header bytes and on the file structure. The default video player installed on Windows or Mac may not be so clever.

Stroller.

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Nuno J. Silva]

On 2013-01-02, Stroller wrote:

> On 1 January 2013, at 15:22, Francisco Ares wrote:
>> ...
>> I've heard (or read) that before, to me it seems quite strange that
> one of the main products from MS to be so outdated in this area.
>
> AVI has been around a long time. It is inevitably prone to "bitrot",
> then.
>
> AIUI the AVI specification states a number of valid codecs that can be
> used; AIUI h264 (for example) is not amongst them.
>
> It will work on some systems (particularly open source) to put h264 /
> AAC into an AVI - that's not supported on others. So if you need to
> play the video on a Mac, a games console or a set-top box then you may
> be in trouble.
>
> As a rule of thumb, most new video-playing devices have hardware h264
> support; use .mp4 or .mkv for h264.

IIRC, h264 is actually one of the codecs that has issues with AVI. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_container_formats.

>> I tried an MP4 renamed as AVI, and it worked.
>
> If you merely renamed the file then you didn't change the container.
>
> http://html5.xoofoo.org/video.html
>
> A Linux video player will probably ignore the file extension - it'll
> figure out what kind of container you used based on the file's header
> bytes and on the file structure. The default video player installed on
> Windows or Mac may not be so clever.

This is probably more about Microsoft Powerpoint being actually able to
deal with other containers (it probably merely passes the video file
(container and everything) to the Video for Windows or DirectShow
subsystem, which may or may not have handlers for other
containers). I guess that, although Powerpoint does not need to care
about the container, it does enforce some extension.

-- 
Nuno Silva (aka njsg)
http://njsg.sdf-eu.org/

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Nuno J. Silva]

On 2013-01-01, Stroller wrote:

> On 30 December 2012, at 11:39, Nuno J. Silva wrote:
>> ...
>> The AVI container has been used by windows for a long time, so I'd say
>> chances are that it will work on more systems, but I can't say for sure.
>
> But h264 in an AVI is invalid.
>
> AVI is dated and just plain nasty.
>
> You should use something else (like h264 in an MP4) if you possibly can.

AVI is old, AVI has issues. AVI is not compatible with some
codecs. *But* AVI has been around for long enough to be supported by
many versions of Windows and Office, and what we're looking for here is
whatever offers the broadest support. I don't even think Windows (at
least up to 7) has a builtin h264 decoder. At least I remember having to
install codecs in Vista and 7 machines in order to view h264 Youtube
videos.

-- 
Nuno Silva (aka njsg)
http://njsg.sdf-eu.org/

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Michael Mol]

On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt> wrote:
> On 2013-01-01, Stroller wrote:
>
>> On 30 December 2012, at 11:39, Nuno J. Silva wrote:
>>> ...
>>> The AVI container has been used by windows for a long time, so I'd say
>>> chances are that it will work on more systems, but I can't say for sure.
>>
>> But h264 in an AVI is invalid.
>>
>> AVI is dated and just plain nasty.
>>
>> You should use something else (like h264 in an MP4) if you possibly can.
>
> AVI is old, AVI has issues. AVI is not compatible with some
> codecs. *But* AVI has been around for long enough to be supported by
> many versions of Windows and Office, and what we're looking for here is
> whatever offers the broadest support. I don't even think Windows (at
> least up to 7) has a builtin h264 decoder. At least I remember having to
> install codecs in Vista and 7 machines in order to view h264 Youtube
> videos.

Did a bit of googling. Windows 7 includes h264 support.

In any case, there's something *critically* important missing in most
of this discussion about AVI vs something else.

Just because Windows supports AVI doesn't mean that Windows includes
all possible codecs you might stuff in an AVI. There's h264, there's
MPEG, MPEG2, Theora, RLE Windows Media and hundreds of codecs I've
forgotten. And that's just video. For audio, there's more variation
than there is for WAV[1]. In addition to anything WAVE files might
contain, you might find just about anything. There's FLAC, AAC, Speex,
MP2a, MP3, Vorbis and thousands more.

AVI is just a container. Nothing more. Containers are like ZIP files
or tar files, but instead of containing a filesystem, they contain a
variable number of audio and video streams in such a way that the
audio and video data for a moment in time are close together and
easily accessible. The meat is in the audio and video streams, the
format of which we call codecs.

The big question is what *codecs* are available on the target systems.

If you're looking for the absolute widest degree of support, you're
looking at DIB encoding for video with uLaw PCM for audio. But that's
going to be a *huge* file, because there's no compression at all!

The best compression that's going to be available on the widest
variety of systems is probably going to be MPEG2 video with MPEG2
layer 3 audio.

The best compression that might be available, period, would be h.264,
combined with MP4 audio, in an MP4 container. Almost as good results
can be had with h.264 video, MP4 audio in an AVI container.[2]

So, Francisco, what version of Windows will your slideshow be played on?

[1] Yeah, WAVE files aren't exactly simple, either. They can contain
different PCM encodings. There's aLaw, uLaw, float...
[2] For full effectiveness, h.264 requires features that the AVI
container doesn't have.

--
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation

[Francisco Ares]

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2013/1/1 Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com>

> On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt>
> wrote:
> > On 2013-01-01, Stroller wrote:
> >
> >> On 30 December 2012, at 11:39, Nuno J. Silva wrote:
> >>> ...
> >>> The AVI container has been used by windows for a long time, so I'd say
> >>> chances are that it will work on more systems, but I can't say for
> sure.
> >>
> >> But h264 in an AVI is invalid.
> >>
> >> AVI is dated and just plain nasty.
> >>
> >> You should use something else (like h264 in an MP4) if you possibly can.
> >
> > AVI is old, AVI has issues. AVI is not compatible with some
> > codecs. *But* AVI has been around for long enough to be supported by
> > many versions of Windows and Office, and what we're looking for here is
> > whatever offers the broadest support. I don't even think Windows (at
> > least up to 7) has a builtin h264 decoder. At least I remember having to
> > install codecs in Vista and 7 machines in order to view h264 Youtube
> > videos.
>
> Did a bit of googling. Windows 7 includes h264 support.
>
> In any case, there's something *critically* important missing in most
> of this discussion about AVI vs something else.
>
> Just because Windows supports AVI doesn't mean that Windows includes
> all possible codecs you might stuff in an AVI. There's h264, there's
> MPEG, MPEG2, Theora, RLE Windows Media and hundreds of codecs I've
> forgotten. And that's just video. For audio, there's more variation
> than there is for WAV[1]. In addition to anything WAVE files might
> contain, you might find just about anything. There's FLAC, AAC, Speex,
> MP2a, MP3, Vorbis and thousands more.
>
> AVI is just a container. Nothing more. Containers are like ZIP files
> or tar files, but instead of containing a filesystem, they contain a
> variable number of audio and video streams in such a way that the
> audio and video data for a moment in time are close together and
> easily accessible. The meat is in the audio and video streams, the
> format of which we call codecs.
>
> The big question is what *codecs* are available on the target systems.
>
> If you're looking for the absolute widest degree of support, you're
> looking at DIB encoding for video with uLaw PCM for audio. But that's
> going to be a *huge* file, because there's no compression at all!
>
> The best compression that's going to be available on the widest
> variety of systems is probably going to be MPEG2 video with MPEG2
> layer 3 audio.
>
> The best compression that might be available, period, would be h.264,
> combined with MP4 audio, in an MP4 container. Almost as good results
> can be had with h.264 video, MP4 audio in an AVI container.[2]
>
> So, Francisco, what version of Windows will your slideshow be played on?
>
> [1] Yeah, WAVE files aren't exactly simple, either. They can contain
> different PCM encodings. There's aLaw, uLaw, float...
> [2] For full effectiveness, h.264 requires features that the AVI
> container doesn't have.
>
> --
> :wq
>
>
Wow, what a class! Thank you a lot, that explained much of my doubts. I had
no problems with audio, I use several programs and several codecs for
messing around with different audio file formats. But video was still a
mystery to me.

As a matter of fact, I am not sure on what windows version this
presentation will be played, it is a training presentation, so I suppose we
can only expect at least XP.

I will bring a free MS office player, so that part should not be a problem.
And also a "K-Lite" or any other codecs package installer.

Thanks
-- 
Francisco
"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you
and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have
one idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas."
- George Bernard Shaw

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