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From: Francisco Ares <frares@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 14:29:02 -0200
Message-ID: <CAHH9eM7kaPgPSRYkp=JEJsDxpc4q=5_4jn3i1xF0H=bTL4Dw+w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] codec for video embedded in presentation
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
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2013/1/1 Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com>
> On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Nuno J. Silva <nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt>
> wrote:
> > On 2013-01-01, Stroller wrote:
> >
> >> On 30 December 2012, at 11:39, Nuno J. Silva wrote:
> >>> ...
> >>> The AVI container has been used by windows for a long time, so I'd say
> >>> chances are that it will work on more systems, but I can't say for
> sure.
> >>
> >> But h264 in an AVI is invalid.
> >>
> >> AVI is dated and just plain nasty.
> >>
> >> You should use something else (like h264 in an MP4) if you possibly can.
> >
> > AVI is old, AVI has issues. AVI is not compatible with some
> > codecs. *But* AVI has been around for long enough to be supported by
> > many versions of Windows and Office, and what we're looking for here is
> > whatever offers the broadest support. I don't even think Windows (at
> > least up to 7) has a builtin h264 decoder. At least I remember having to
> > install codecs in Vista and 7 machines in order to view h264 Youtube
> > videos.
>
> Did a bit of googling. Windows 7 includes h264 support.
>
> In any case, there's something *critically* important missing in most
> of this discussion about AVI vs something else.
>
> Just because Windows supports AVI doesn't mean that Windows includes
> all possible codecs you might stuff in an AVI. There's h264, there's
> MPEG, MPEG2, Theora, RLE Windows Media and hundreds of codecs I've
> forgotten. And that's just video. For audio, there's more variation
> than there is for WAV[1]. In addition to anything WAVE files might
> contain, you might find just about anything. There's FLAC, AAC, Speex,
> MP2a, MP3, Vorbis and thousands more.
>
> AVI is just a container. Nothing more. Containers are like ZIP files
> or tar files, but instead of containing a filesystem, they contain a
> variable number of audio and video streams in such a way that the
> audio and video data for a moment in time are close together and
> easily accessible. The meat is in the audio and video streams, the
> format of which we call codecs.
>
> The big question is what *codecs* are available on the target systems.
>
> If you're looking for the absolute widest degree of support, you're
> looking at DIB encoding for video with uLaw PCM for audio. But that's
> going to be a *huge* file, because there's no compression at all!
>
> The best compression that's going to be available on the widest
> variety of systems is probably going to be MPEG2 video with MPEG2
> layer 3 audio.
>
> The best compression that might be available, period, would be h.264,
> combined with MP4 audio, in an MP4 container. Almost as good results
> can be had with h.264 video, MP4 audio in an AVI container.[2]
>
> So, Francisco, what version of Windows will your slideshow be played on?
>
> [1] Yeah, WAVE files aren't exactly simple, either. They can contain
> different PCM encodings. There's aLaw, uLaw, float...
> [2] For full effectiveness, h.264 requires features that the AVI
> container doesn't have.
>
> --
> :wq
>
>
Wow, what a class! Thank you a lot, that explained much of my doubts. I had
no problems with audio, I use several programs and several codecs for
messing around with different audio file formats. But video was still a
mystery to me.
As a matter of fact, I am not sure on what windows version this
presentation will be played, it is a training presentation, so I suppose we
can only expect at least XP.
I will bring a free MS office player, so that part should not be a problem.
And also a "K-Lite" or any other codecs package installer.
Thanks
--
Francisco
"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you
and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have
one idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas."
- George Bernard Shaw
--14dae93403a9b5e1b604d250bfca
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/1/1 Michael Mol <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:mikemol@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mikemol@gmail.com</a>>=
</span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div>On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Nuno J. Silva <<a href=3D"mail=
to:nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt" target=3D"_blank">nunojsilva@ist.utl.pt</a>> w=
rote:<br>
> On 2013-01-01, Stroller wrote:<br>
><br>
>> On 30 December 2012, at 11:39, Nuno J. Silva wrote:<br>
>>> ...<br>
>>> The AVI container has been used by windows for a long time, so=
I'd say<br>
>>> chances are that it will work on more systems, but I can't=
say for sure.<br>
>><br>
>> But h264 in an AVI is invalid.<br>
>><br>
>> AVI is dated and just plain nasty.<br>
>><br>
>> You should use something else (like h264 in an MP4) if you possibl=
y can.<br>
><br>
> AVI is old, AVI has issues. AVI is not compatible with some<br>
> codecs. *But* AVI has been around for long enough to be supported by<b=
r>
> many versions of Windows and Office, and what we're looking for he=
re is<br>
> whatever offers the broadest support. I don't even think Windows (=
at<br>
> least up to 7) has a builtin h264 decoder. At least I remember having =
to<br>
> install codecs in Vista and 7 machines in order to view h264 Youtube<b=
r>
> videos.<br>
<br>
</div></div>Did a bit of googling. Windows 7 includes h264 support.<br>
<br>
In any case, there's something *critically* important missing in most<b=
r>
of this discussion about AVI vs something else.<br>
<br>
Just because Windows supports AVI doesn't mean that Windows includes<br=
>
all possible codecs you might stuff in an AVI. There's h264, there'=
s<br>
MPEG, MPEG2, Theora, RLE Windows Media and hundreds of codecs I've<br>
forgotten. And that's just video. For audio, there's more variation=
<br>
than there is for WAV[1]. In addition to anything WAVE files might<br>
contain, you might find just about anything. There's FLAC, AAC, Speex,<=
br>
MP2a, MP3, Vorbis and thousands more.<br>
<br>
AVI is just a container. Nothing more. Containers are like ZIP files<br>
or tar files, but instead of containing a filesystem, they contain a<br>
variable number of audio and video streams in such a way that the<br>
audio and video data for a moment in time are close together and<br>
easily accessible. The meat is in the audio and video streams, the<br>
format of which we call codecs.<br>
<br>
The big question is what *codecs* are available on the target systems.<br>
<br>
If you're looking for the absolute widest degree of support, you're=
<br>
looking at DIB encoding for video with uLaw PCM for audio. But that's<b=
r>
going to be a *huge* file, because there's no compression at all!<br>
<br>
The best compression that's going to be available on the widest<br>
variety of systems is probably going to be MPEG2 video with MPEG2<br>
layer 3 audio.<br>
<br>
The best compression that might be available, period, would be h.264,<br>
combined with MP4 audio, in an MP4 container. Almost as good results<br>
can be had with h.264 video, MP4 audio in an AVI container.[2]<br>
<br>
So, Francisco, what version of Windows will your slideshow be played on?<br=
>
<br>
[1] Yeah, WAVE files aren't exactly simple, either. They can contain<br=
>
different PCM encodings. There's aLaw, uLaw, float...<br>
[2] For full effectiveness, h.264 requires features that the AVI<br>
container doesn't have.<br>
<br>
--<br>
:wq<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br>Wow, what a class! Thank you a lot, that explained m=
uch of my doubts. I had no problems with audio, I use several programs and =
several codecs for messing around with different audio file formats. But vi=
deo was still a mystery to me.<br>
<br>As a matter of fact, I am not sure on what windows version this present=
ation will be played, it is a training presentation, so I suppose we can on=
ly expect at least XP.<br><br>I will bring a free MS office player, so that=
part should not be a problem. And also a "K-Lite" or any other c=
odecs package installer.<br>
<br clear=3D"all">Thanks<br>-- <br>Francisco<br>"If you have an apple =
and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you and I will still each h=
ave one apple. But if you have an idea and I have one idea and we exchange =
these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas." - George Bernard Sh=
aw
--14dae93403a9b5e1b604d250bfca--