From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84D6A138CA3 for ; Sat, 9 May 2015 18:07:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EA8E4E08B2; Sat, 9 May 2015 18:07:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ie0-f180.google.com (mail-ie0-f180.google.com [209.85.223.180]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D827BE08A4 for ; Sat, 9 May 2015 18:07:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iepj10 with SMTP id j10so80875089iep.0 for ; Sat, 09 May 2015 11:07:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=Lf6LRjm3uzJ0MTZytuXdIjOvgYoxzZ43pZeToEuRXE4=; b=fL5N6kwk0yAB6C5/v9/SOMcPknFRo5IPiPbrCQSziGv6KqGB2Q5MhDPR0j5+qLyUsv ARA9LVLqn8Ks9tBKuisdtliFDmlY0/S3ceHcyirZXHaEdYrq+AC+fWQA6WQ5DdBbdGw6 EvoBdZOgxVLOmOrU1f2XESaBZTGL5YUg1qs//lKInIR4wZkKqSvr61L22dwNPFDP1RU8 MwCeCu2Q2MNRBOQo44N0DnZ9m2sQhSOQm48FsAFQMp1J1Ggy57REbBrQGFQbtIK3vCGo GEbJxclyxL0B7TCFj5nAaa3m1dT+R9/x1Y13q7pbvCVMN5493smFhWMFXatOracA8dK8 jzxw== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.43.163.129 with SMTP id mo1mr3681352icc.61.1431194869194; Sat, 09 May 2015 11:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.48.66 with HTTP; Sat, 9 May 2015 11:07:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87wq0hokjb.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> References: <87lhjws8ci.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> <28267.1424201355@ccs.covici.com> <87d257q7en.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> <20150218223115.7fb56f66@digimed.co.uk> <87vbitldj5.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> <20150223091529.656c0008@marcec.fritz.box> <87bni0lvie.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> <87wq0hokjb.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 14:07:49 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: jQxSuC_6erFfFw0KhWx_sZQi10Q Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] syslog-ng: how to read the log files From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Archives-Salt: 4af06054-7a44-4ac1-ae71-d734ea8982a5 X-Archives-Hash: 90eba9bea96fd078cfdeda22459cb0db On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 11:08 AM, lee wrote: > Rich Freeman writes: >> >> Who is forcing anybody to use anything? > > Look around and you will find that systemd has taken over Linux, with a > few exceptions as in distributions like Gentoo. The taking over will > probably continue until you cannot use Linux anymore without using > systemd. If that's not forcing, then what is it? They're not forcing you to use Linux at all, let alone Linux with systemd. Fedora v13 never contained systemd as far as I'm aware. Today it still works EXACTLY as it did then. Nobody is preventing you from using that. The same is true for any other distro that has adopted systemd. Your complaint isn't that people are forcing you to use systemd. Your complaint is that somebody isn't building a linux distro to your personal specifications free of charge. With FOSS we all contribute code that anybody can use for as long as they wish. The fact that you don't want to use the code that somebody wrote a few years ago and would rather they write updated software (perhaps with security vulnerabilities removed, features added, and so on) doesn't obligate others to create it for you. And that is my issue with this line of argument. It assumes that you have a right to demand that others create free software for you, and that they do it to your specifications. I get your frustration. There have been FOSS projects that were discontinued that I've thought were really valuable. However, while I mourn their indefinite slumber, I'm not going to complain that the devs chose to move on. I never paid them for what they gave me in the first place, and I have no right to demand more. The same is true of whoever maintains your init scripts. If you have a support contract that requires somebody to backport fixes to whatever you're using for 10 years, and they're breaking that contract, then I can only agree that you're in the right. Short of that, you've gotten what you've paid for. I understand your frustration, but I don't think the use of terms like "force" is justified. -- Rich