From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFED6139085 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2016 13:03:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B5AC72340AD; Wed, 21 Dec 2016 13:03:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qt0-x244.google.com (mail-qt0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4966F21C121 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2016 13:03:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qt0-x244.google.com with SMTP id p16so3448198qta.1 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2016 05:03:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=sHTGYtHupo/mUwyXZBkCVxTEgPxSW71AyHwQtZi/sIU=; b=OTZfTBVxSgkgb4HYx8zGDshIa3GKRcK9tG2gvjntxoYvolkoyuXKwh/wKocq7csH1x n0zpjvATT7Oxfx7jjEjn1L9AVpl+mdGrgwxVU7SXfHLcBnbO601Vf5KiBYvTkdbllErg YHFF5ht8kXKeuhkh3pkhRtBNDEU1prLhUuRO+c9wahCjLOaE9Sf4dFhCGSBL9g+sHqw1 i2HlFf9OUHAugq2iQpqxo4ax6jnvUJRrTZdv8GMMwbKrC5nvLXk0SStsw4NA2rzKP7zo XuKusx6hVM+ZoRB0LhRgRe0sI8rVkzCaCfyeryuYCTcOAQsFz4LOeY59cz13e0dCEkU+ t1UA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to; bh=sHTGYtHupo/mUwyXZBkCVxTEgPxSW71AyHwQtZi/sIU=; b=FRLpUjqGvVJIDmChu7kkEQlXOY3h6WzpmN1fke037XTxTYUZoxD+NDJ4V1ULQau20x /s4D05NmRpdCAc/JGJcNCGxgYQ/+xKHuVgDHSkTSnjqJ5kfscb7VMBsz0aACMgp3RFay YxUQBexlVzzrTrePTpJ5Y+wFhN698apxJEc0cBSIbGTmFiGElWUcCJ9ZWWQr6zY+GrHf FuIbkv6y7Egoz34I2/Mqo8s5AvnKDLnxTq2ndX1+RYHauIVyOXuhAuEVC91sWuBdAWuV WMB1UbslPnZygqPnn1unAbOLxqNt3zfTyoqSzSi+yu5rvWMLMlutNaIgrix+5/tqY6xf n9/w== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXIeJRAGXX0Ht1whqxMykSTDmjzNuDydDCEOtBief7cY2bIQikEMjcFck6tBX/yFX+DczuktuIf4II1uiA== X-Received: by 10.200.57.134 with SMTP id v6mr4258556qte.36.1482325398337; Wed, 21 Dec 2016 05:03:18 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.140.34.73 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2016 05:03:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6769c024-5135-ffd6-472d-5e3230aa8399@libertytrek.org> References: <20161015182743.GB4541@solfire> <31e5a0f5-ffc3-0b6f-3bb4-1685d1efe876@andrejro.de> <1539590.2abgqJ6fBz@thetick> <20161220225155.GA6010@acm.fritz.box> <6769c024-5135-ffd6-472d-5e3230aa8399@libertytrek.org> From: Rich Freeman Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 08:03:17 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: H1CTqpyCKnjEMT6Fhl2sHzcsa9Y Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Archives-Salt: 06ea3af3-e4cc-41ed-9d71-bb7ad250721f X-Archives-Hash: cc64be807dbb8b680d8c145827154c1a On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: > On 12/20/2016 9:33 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>> systemd is primarily a political project, not a technical one. > >> What political benefit do I gain from using and maintaining systemd? > > Interesting that you snipped the rest of his comment - or more his main > point - that followed. > I don't really consider it political, but I think it was largely correct insofar as one of the goals of systemd is to standardize the core system dependencies/etc so that packages can rely on them being present and vertically integrate. I don't agree that you are "forced" to use systemd. Maybe you might be forced to use a different browser or fork your browser or patch it or stick with an old version and backport security fixes if you want to use it without systemd some day. But, if the entire Firefox developer community quit and decided to do something else (a la Thunderbird) you'd be in a similar boat. Sometimes you get what you pay for. I get that people who want to avoid systemd are frustrated by this, but honestly it feels like spitting against the wind at this point. I was frustrated back when everybody stopped taking care of kde-3.5 and kde-4 wasn't really ready and was a resource hog on older systems. I switched to xfce for a while, because ultimately I can't demand that the kde project cater to my whims. The moment you choose to run code that you didn't write yourself, then you become dependent on them. With FOSS it gives you a lot more options as anybody can potentially fork it and take it in a new direction. That doesn't change the reality that developing FOSS takes work, and if 1% of the community wants to take it in a substantially different direction they're going to have a much harder time of it than the 99%. In general though, nobody is required to engage in debates/arguments/etc here, or even read your posts. People choose to participate in list discussions just as they choose what software they want to maintain. -- Rich