From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4CBD1381FA for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2014 12:58:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AF7A5E0ADC; Wed, 4 Jun 2014 12:58:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vc0-f196.google.com (mail-vc0-f196.google.com [209.85.220.196]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8171E0A63 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2014 12:58:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vc0-f196.google.com with SMTP id ik5so1299724vcb.7 for ; Wed, 04 Jun 2014 05:58:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=IcchoSQpzpOhuWyEBLNmeYpCz86AQyufGpq3u0bF8Rc=; b=HrIf/UipLTmrJAa45/MtPu8NfAAY2TV6O0hZGIpbSvv/8A6CPWRyBM3L/3Z+JYaD3I 41btdKrskorszyabaVB3LSTmCGx0TVAUYVhm22c9GEXPBM3x4zT12sxsNycKdDwyOkRy FsEza9SIeyeVcFP/ADBBDdkbCWYqZK3h7VbIa1sOQlrdyQu3EMZXo5j31D9reMbn1BRA HNRFMm+z+h/bFDh7p7d9tTn9qq53PiD1eIKfhOdHFouGtCodCW47Dkrr8kSgM0lMsxPK syLNviInyIlxK1QCS3ufj2QjTKOOlrmjTIim4xpHv8DBP4WUXdTzmvyUq+TDisMcWmRw p2ZA== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.98.143 with SMTP id q15mr3628353vcn.38.1401886680778; Wed, 04 Jun 2014 05:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Sender: freemanrich@gmail.com Received: by 10.52.30.227 with HTTP; Wed, 4 Jun 2014 05:58:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <538F0F5F.8020707@libertytrek.org> References: <20140603161406.0400709b5f38540475ac4c1f@web.de> <6653474.aQqAYpAeto@wstn> <538DFC41.3080602@libertytrek.org> <538F0F5F.8020707@libertytrek.org> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 08:58:00 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: PVRLhD7RF1cDO45vz9qjqUrcEeg Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd upower From: Rich Freeman To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Archives-Salt: 3c2a8f8b-e482-42b5-8c71-3bcb21adb2cc X-Archives-Hash: 7b508991cdbf020cf3bd1dda2c39cfd3 On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: > And yes, as devs get lazier (decide to rely on systemd rather than build it > to work independently of the init system), this will in fact result in > *users* (read: those lacking the skills to code every program out there to > work without systemd) eventually being *forced* to switch to systemd. > > That is simply the reality. You can ignore it if you like, but it doesn't > change it. Forced is forced. Well, if your goal is to persuade people to change, I'd suggest taking that to the upower mailing list, since they're the ones who added the systemd requirement. All anybody at Gentoo did was fork it and provide an alternative. The fiasco was the result of it being unclear that the option existed. However, the general trend I've seen is that when people complain to upstreams that they don't want them to depend on systemd, upstream tends to tell them to go make their own upstream. So, instead they complain on lists that don't ban them, like this one. It doesn't really fix anything though - it just gets everybody upset and often results in misdirected anger. The only thing Samuli did was give non-systemd users a workaround for an upstream problem, and the news clarifying this came out a bit late. I generally intend to switch over to systemd, but I for one would love for there to be the option to use alternatives. Simply wishing that won't make it happen, and since i don't really intend to use the alternatives it is a bit hard to get the motivation to help fork the world. That's just the way the wind seems to be blowing these days. Rich