From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FD1B1381F3 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:20:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D0B63E0E6E; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:20:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ve0-f176.google.com (mail-ve0-f176.google.com [209.85.128.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1589E0E3A for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:20:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ve0-f176.google.com with SMTP id jx11so3422335veb.35 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 13:20:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=EsCa1TIiTC35zEPnrs4qgO8fFxYB7fOKACAOngk/CmE=; b=PPUfK2JLqJ6S/3DXgBiOYzLlOrmSQZ+Wr/olv7B6rp2+7STiqCfJtpNURwGk4VwCMu PTMJ/MfzAmmDg63U7Gy22BjXUQKkwUP469WLZFH7BgM2v38yQ7r61O5vjq4g5mq1S9Su lxhRcFaQ1Q7UYGtX8+gcVwIt1j7U8XHvSik6958hLC8vNj8JG49K19Zo419ZfNDSI2vT UraLqWwKQLrC+hd2Fz1jbyZkc5IAWCySVChYmqdOY9gEzaO39eDrt4FwaI4ogRlrZgzD LUI1ixzZi5/MTSwEv3UaEM/Wrorh1gRjUDWtpI9q1qSyXlOM3hIuMiLv6uVHdMDhvbBR 3fRQ== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.34.109 with SMTP id y13mr15944960vdi.8.1380486007807; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 13:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.98.196 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Sep 2013 13:20:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5247128D.3030801@gmail.com> References: <20130927222109.GD23408@server> <5246079E.7090406@gmail.com> <20130927223916.GE23408@server> <52460D42.2080109@gmail.com> <20130928003220.GF23408@server> <20130928160159.GA4247@linux1> <5247128D.3030801@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 04:20:07 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] separate / and /usr to require initramfs 2013-11-01 From: Mark David Dumlao To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Archives-Salt: 8b0c2fac-567e-4f0a-9d21-7be5bc848abf X-Archives-Hash: 382ae7d0beaeb4f840a745798bf7e90a On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 1:31 AM, Dale wrote: > One thing that you seem to be missing here. Before Gentoo, I used Mandrake. > It had a init thingy. It caused me much grief and is one reason I left > Mandrake. I also didn't like the upgrade process either but one reason I > chose Gentoo is no init thingy. I wanted to be rid of that. Now, whether > it is udev or not, here comes that stupid init thingy just because someone > doesn't want to put files where they should be which is not inside /usr. > > So, given my history with the init thingy, if I do use a init thingy and it > fails for whatever reason, I'll be installing something else. I done went > down the road of trying to fix one of those stupid things and I have no plan > or desire to do so again. I'm also not going to spend hours reinstalling > Gentoo either. If, more than likely when, the init thingy fails, I'll be > installing something else and I'll most my last sign off message here. One > thing about Linux, there are plenty of distros to pick from . I love Gentoo > but I like to be able to boot up without dealing with a init thingy that I > have to fix when it goes belly up. > > Dale > I don't know why people keep humoring this kind of explanation for systemd, udev, or /usr FUD, but this is not a rational way to think. It's the same kind of excuse to say "I'm never going to use any kind of Linux, even Android, because I tried it 3 or 4 times when it was on floppies, and I couldn't get it to work". I'm really sorry about your terrible experience with "init thingies" in the past, but you've got to face the facts: 1) most distros today, Kubuntu included, bundle an "init thingy" and it works flawlessly for them. 2) you really, seriously, have to own up to the fact that your init thingy failing was very likely your fault (because of 1) 3) managing "init thingies" has gotten ridiculously easy over time as compared to when you manually had to build them Especially that number 2 part. I mean, let's not forget that character of Gentoo as a distribution. Or heck, even *nix distributions in general. *nix distributions give you a lot of tools to arrange your systems the way you want, i.e. choice, but it is always implicitly under the assumption that the choice you're making is an *informed* choice. That's why you're asked to read the manual, or check the readmes, or check the sample configs, and in this day and age, do a basic search for working examples, before asking questions. *nix is not, and has never been about being "polite" to users who don't know what they are doing, and has always been about being efficient to users who do. I've been recommended to put it "over the top" bluntly before, so: 1) STOP. FREAKING. BEING. IRRATIONAL. 2) STOP BLAMING INIT THINGIES FOR YOUR MISTAKES. THE DAMNED THINGS WORK. 3) If you're scared of doing an init thingy *manually*, just read and do the howto of the simplest init thingy manager in town (dracut? genkernel?). It surely takes less time and effort than migrating to Kubuntu or whatever. -- This email is: [ ] actionable [x] fyi [x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [x] none