From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 076F3138BF3 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:54:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CC7EEE0C35; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:54:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ie0-f173.google.com (mail-ie0-f173.google.com [209.85.223.173]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5AE9E0C1D for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:54:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f173.google.com with SMTP id lx4so379594iec.32 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 03:54:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=XMNmzMw+f0Dgrw6KN6z1nHDXGLCvLl8P0HVZEa2fBsM=; b=bVLzKgPD/ZQDzcA9lYILDuYDrhbD7WQYSVZJuuCzfi3m0ZtGH3S5xaFXgdRXxZFBYF FG1s9X/Bkl1v7+5HTDGOVEHtfuvTvkwkhFd3QzzduQt016LBMpY4wuBuUzCjnbyfAgho X3+aYVKC4H5D0D6RLyG7jGGpGCVKwQg9zzX9JtKEX9cHqFKXHOFg0urYtFY853Xb8PT8 Qt6bGIoIWCM7Ei9EtKJQhUfdDh2ZrDKqspm7rrzUXatB7kMOI+PXysZfEFOkKk2ab7SJ V9ym5fzpeyLYb4Xfi2vbqsbMoveZZKPG0wgyCQoprrf+H2GRJwLee81HvcvFmeUVPY8U Dxrw== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.119.134 with SMTP id b6mr12680020icr.31.1392724444134; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 03:54:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.50.122.37 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 03:54:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <52FF9D58.3000608@libertytrek.org> <201402152023.10543.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> <5300DD51.5060207@libertytrek.org> <5300EA3A.5020801@gmail.com> <24165346-F62B-4CD4-BB43-0D5A68BE0004@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> <530268AE.3050603@gmail.com> <53032C35.3060307@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:54:03 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie From: Mark David Dumlao To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Archives-Salt: 1399a80a-f79d-41b4-9943-70152b6dddd3 X-Archives-Hash: a737f05846cc6156825db74a60ce786f On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 5:52 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote: > On Tue, February 18, 2014 10:47, Alan McKinnon wrote: >> On 18/02/2014 05:46, Mark David Dumlao wrote: >>> I used to use cherokee. Fast, light, awesome, and with a web admin. >>> The init script always failed me. /etc/init.d/cherokee stop was not a >>> guaranteed stop to all forked cherokee processes - the parent pid >>> dies, but some forked process or something, usually related to >>> rrdtool, doesn't. Or the parent does exit and erases the pid file but >>> it returns control immediately and its not yet done exiting. Something >>> like that or other. Point is, I've several times had to ps aux|grep >>> ... kill; zap; start - on production servers. >> >> >> Valid point. Other than vixie-cron (damn thing just never seems to die >> properly on any platform so restarts always fail) I don't really run >> into these issues > > Interesting, I have never had issues with restarting vixie-cron using the > supplied init-scripts. > >> What I do run into is daemons that drop privs on start up, like >> tac_plus. Unwary new sysadmins always try start/stop it as root, causing >> an unholy mess. Root the owns the log and pid files, when tac_plus drops >> privs it can't record it's state so continues to service requests but >> fails to log any of them. For an auth daemon, that's a serious issue. > > Shouldn't sysadmins use the init-scripts for that? > If done correctly, permissions should not be an issue. > > Restarting services without keeping file ownership into account will > always cause issues. Regardless of the init-system used. > That's just the thing though. As a sysadmin, how do you debug a service that isn't starting to begin with? Let's say your new to the service. You're not even sure if you got the config right the first time around. Or maybe you're adjusting a setting somewhere, and you're confused why it isn't taking effect. All the /upstream documentation/, all the /man pages/, all the /usr/share/doc stuff will tell you to start it _raw_. The init script obscures the starting options, environment variables, and sometimes even the running user from you. What are you gonna do, play a human shell script parser? Nobody's perfect, do it enough times and you're going to casually gloss over the line where --safe-mode is appended to the string depending on the phase of the moon... If you're lucky, you've never had to start an unfamiliar service, or debug someone else's unfamiliar config under time pressure... -- This email is: [ ] actionable [ ] fyi [x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [x] none