From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9790A1381F3 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:34:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 10E90E0A02; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:34:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ie0-f178.google.com (mail-ie0-f178.google.com [209.85.223.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D66E0E08F3 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:34:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f178.google.com with SMTP id aq17so4564244iec.37 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 01:34:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=A1azt9WkM5Uipww65LD0z80dnD+nfZKdVzgimtEFev0=; b=HgwkZ5641j7dnx//Ueb/T9fq/QkuistNRawJrcgw9Y5JRrD0/rhQE4MILEMkc3w7S5 6xncgHWgMoK6lV/QtPzmT/gqYgb9dSAynsO3lj4ZYcp4oJEOfAEddZbhLAkZJXa0YJDG h0PWy/s4aBAoCE8FH8JmbTjHqgXGlblS1FuXIkgeeP7pvy0G6YRcel1bqyboaWhD6j6v HJiBr5vJqsWwA98PRnhXs7dE/XnnFXF3Ne+Bj4RrcptXG1XRfddUbijDtqs116WvKqXp i6bL275nwRRpLdZxn/qWznImSe31BWIe663CUiEHvMWrwZM6Yn0YtWQlysBN1M4AAFn7 VuQg== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.55.73 with SMTP id q9mr1258486igp.44.1366965244107; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 01:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.100.1 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 01:34:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130425191724.GA14098@waltdnes.org> References: <20130418193224.GA3234@acm.acm> <5170F203.3@gmail.com> <20130420093414.GA31686@waltdnes.org> <20130425191724.GA14098@waltdnes.org> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 16:34:03 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Removing pulseaudio From: Mark David Dumlao To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Archives-Salt: b23213b6-f84e-4dc2-8bfd-d10dcbc7d6e8 X-Archives-Hash: 3de63022d337fd8372428f077a0cb229 On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 3:17 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:48:07PM +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote >> Analogy: >> 99% of people aren't going to need a11y. But the whole point of >> installing it by default on most desktop systems is that you can't >> predict who will need it, >> and _it does not harm_ (or very little harm) > to the people who don't.> > [ list of pa horror anecdotes ] > And a Google search turns up a lot more cases. >> So your tradeoffs are: >> A) no a11y unless elected by user: >> - for the 1%: a11y is a pain to install > > How "painfull" is it to add "pulseaudio" to USE in make.conf and then > emerge --changed-use world > So how "painful" is it to not add pulseaudio to your USE flag? You're comparing a gentoo user's experience, where we willingly wade in stuff to fix, to, say, an gnobuntudora user's experience, where all of this is automatic and made to "just work"... I wouldn't be surprised if the horror stories had to do with configuring the damned thing. It's actually interesting how dated (read:solved) some of the lag issues are when I _do_ google them which is revealing.... >> because the user might not even be able to see the screen (very big pain) > > Are you seriously arguing that a linux system will black-screen at > bootup due to lack of pulseaudio? See my previous message: no. I'm arguing that a very simplistic take on "more complexity = automatic bad" is misguided. > That is a strawman argument that avoids the question. This is *NOT* > about "a few megabytes" of disk space. It's about an extra layer on top > of the system, chewing up memory, slowing it down, and interacting with > other software to cause problems. *THAT* is what it's about. The "extra layer" that eats up so much memory (megabytes), slowdown (megabytes!), and software bogging (more megabytes!) that it's a wonder why anybody's desktop works as is. Oh wait. YES it is entirely about a few megabytes you don't like. A few megabytes that OTHER people choose to put on THEIR computers to NO effect on yours. Even your sig betrays your bias. > -- > Walter Dnes > I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications > -- This email is: [ ] actionable [ ] fyi [x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [x] none