From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5900B1381F3 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:51:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 700C2E0A76; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:50:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ie0-f172.google.com (mail-ie0-f172.google.com [209.85.223.172]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50C97E0A62 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:50:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f172.google.com with SMTP id c12so4705983ieb.3 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 01:50:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=xCJFfjGuOTCe0qKhGa8RNoAlJxvx3itwNbcsy7KlHJE=; b=c+xGGXEtDPby0jXiSicz0C6rLuddBYEsU5KkItjhwpHLBsB+r4u/hNQ2xU4stw47Ei KRMTSik9YawSnPtcnWiEwbG6NYAEQBNgRHD4LZqbjDj0veycyl9AVjmdpl6/3sXnEfLs r06s6UtGReWNqkLHCJiheRVnt9BzAEsRNH/UN45Kwnrpgqq5WuMWzFhpkQynlJ0vnSzX VofglmAu46A1rvsix9853iOrvR4SQQ5tAyWwF4Gns2FhZB7kV/wPg+Z4Zq4g2KCRi7CC 9BxtMIXpPsWbsKLR5Pjm66D5L7mfpPDKtd+J+uQnFSO4ENSy5uNv14dWRODrnupcnkqM 5ZOw== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.85.19 with SMTP id d19mr1185612igz.52.1366966243601; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 01:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.100.1 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 01:50:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <51798A1D.9090000@gmail.com> References: <20130418193224.GA3234@acm.acm> <5170F203.3@gmail.com> <20130420093414.GA31686@waltdnes.org> <51798A1D.9090000@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 16:50:43 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Removing pulseaudio From: Mark David Dumlao To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Archives-Salt: d44a4360-db62-45c2-a42d-ab6658674044 X-Archives-Hash: 0b58df6d78b4e680e4c7445d7c0bfe8e On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 3:55 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > And you are vastly overstating the desirability of having pulseaudio > enforced on users without very good cause How much barefaced lying can you do in one sentence? 1) it's not enforced _on you_. USE=-pulse 2) bluetooth headset goes in, audio goes out is good cause. > and seem to have > underestimated how deep that rabbit hole goes. No I haven't. I have no idea how deep the complexity of pulseaudio is because I don't know how to use it. I don't know how to use it because it just works. Somewhere, somehow at the back of these config files there was some switch I turned on for some nefarious purpose of enabling some plugin for switching default outputs. But if I compare how well I learned to use grub vs pulseaudio, two things that I use everyday, it's clear that one of them was more successful in hiding the complexity from me before I used it successfully. HINT: it wasn't grub. > As others have stated, how many more such packages are there that can be > argued to have them on a system? A good first grab would be the number > of packages where the users are >=1% and <=99% You can argue those packages if you wish and I guarantee you'll fail 99.9% of them. Because they don't serve the purpose of controlling PLUG N PLAY AUDIO. If you actually talk like it matters what the programs do, rather than just making airy abstractions on what some ideal fetishized system should be like, you'll understand things better. > "It does no harm and might be useful for some" is simply not a valid > reason to enforce a package on all users, especially when said package > is the latest johnny-come-lately from a wunderkind with a proven > reputation for writing invasive code[1] Oh dear. I should've realized what this was really about. There aren't really any technical reasons behind this, are there? Just some good old fashioned Lennart hate boners. I have a perfect halloween campfire story for this group. The one where a malicious udev update gives a backdoor for He Who Must Not Be Named to install his LennartWare onto yor systems... Later guys. -- This email is: [ ] actionable [ ] fyi [x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [x] none