From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69FF3138E20 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 03:36:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 272B5E0B6A; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 03:36:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-f193.google.com (mail-wi0-f193.google.com [209.85.212.193]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8C79E0AA6 for ; Fri, 21 Feb 2014 03:36:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wi0-f193.google.com with SMTP id d9so140349wiv.8 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 19:36:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pEol7c5wrXTW/6Q5uJB2uZRSoYAsGJMxlhPBdnLUKZs=; b=cKb2Ft+xCdEoWV238JTmlfD8IMT1S2QM03pWSpGVYp8DHjmOy9CsJO2X2Id9/YaXNl 5vlrhMWkJq/qt+nH6qGFh8EiNZWJTPuxbuNbjmpGE6KkcsvKI/92AXZ4RfjAfQ8KBnr1 hSQNDwtS8njVpwZ8IdoQ0rUI9qqPgA9K+E8WyEfHQaKrl7MmikIYeAhZZGs6btqDMhev nsNUeLdi3WXNarW3HYdTPnSAVEebNplfRX6fOg4gdFOtCPioUBOhXSCXU1UeIeTb9qo+ zAu7ruDyix4wExMVCA7V6h4/f2ZcSTMihRIp+aNTGNQYqkRAbXsb+RocV08pIGGOSc9Z zK8g== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.96.102 with SMTP id dr6mr1129177wib.61.1392953775598; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 19:36:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.60.76 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 19:36:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5305FACC.8080705@libertytrek.org> References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <5300DD51.5060207@libertytrek.org> <53010A8E.2050909@googlemail.com> <53012691.6040503@googlemail.com> <20140217215255.5766cb026df2f0b8002f8702@gmail.com> <5302c048.462f0e0a.3d3e.5888@mx.google.com> <20140218210633.d25f4bb88b3891f7c0ed11c6@gmail.com> <20140218220712.9ec8d2529ef49d743b3bc826@gmail.com> <5304576E.4000704@sporkbox.us> <5304A5DE.4050905@libertytrek.org> <5305FACC.8080705@libertytrek.org> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 11:36:15 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie From: Mark David Dumlao To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: dc970007-7bf5-41cf-aa8c-6c1b0d9568c4 X-Archives-Hash: 32182e27be83710fe5322bca912e487f On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Tanstaafl wrot= e: > On 2014-02-20 12:43 AM, Canek Pel=E1ez Vald=E9s wrote: >> >> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 6:38 AM, Tanstaafl >> wrote: >>> >>> On 2014-02-19 2:04 AM, Daniel Campbell wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> For such a profile to be legitimate, systemd would have to be chosen a= s >>>> the default. >>> >>> >>> Ridiculous. Forget about Canek's rant... >>> >>> This is about *choice*. Also, I would argue the *opposite of what Canek >>> is >>> saying in this last rant... > > >> Tanstaafl, can we please not use terms like "rants"? I'm just giving >> my opinion, trying to be respectful and civil to the others >> participants in this thread. I would appreciate if you do the same to >> me. > > > Sorry, Canek, no offense was intended, but if you go back and re-read you= r > 'extremely overly enthusiastic' post (this plus the content is why I > referred to it as a 'rant'), while I agree with most everything you said, > your primary point - that it should be the people who *don't* want system= d > doing all of the work - was backwards, and that was what I wanted to poin= t > out. I'm afraid this is the part that's backwards. > > So, please, don't take it as an insult. In fact you have done a very good > job of patiently spelling out the advantages of systemd, to the point I'm= no > longer afraid of it taking over and devouring the linux world. If systemd truly is, as you say "taking over and devouring the linux world" such that the majority of distro maintainers are individually choosing to use a feature or two from it, then yes, it definitely is the job of peop= le who want to opt out of it to do the work. If Gnome wants systemd, and you don't, but you want to continue using Gnome, it's _your_ job to look for a method or patch or package or script that makes it work. If udev wants systemd, and you don't, but you want to continue using udev, it's _your_ job to look for a method or patch or package or script that makes it work. If foo wants systemd, and you don't, but you want to continue using foo, it's _your_ job to look for a method or patch or package or script that makes it work. If everybody else wants to use systemd but you, it's your job to keep your system working the way you want to. Nobody's going to go out of their way to specifically and targettedly break your system, because you don't like their way. However, you can co-opt some package maintainer's way and say he's obligated to make a "pure" and "systemd uncorrupted" system for you. Because he's not. > Bottom line: since Gentoo's default and primary init system is (and > hopefully will be for a very long time) OpenRC, it is on the systemd folk= s > to do the work to get systemd fully supported. > systemd IS supported and working. The problem arises when there are people that want to push for a "system with no systemd whatsoever" and act like it's the systemd maintainer's job to make that happen. --=20 This email is: [ ] actionable [ ] fyi [x] social Response needed: [ ] yes [x] up to you [ ] no Time-sensitive: [ ] immediate [ ] soon [x] none