[gentoo-user] wireless dropping connections

[gentoo-user] wireless dropping connections

[Alan McKinnon]

I'm using wicd-1.7.2.4-r1 and a NetGear DGN2200M v2 wireless AP
(802.11n)

Several times a day, this thing just drops wireless. I doubt it's my
laptop as other devices in the house also get affected. When this
happens I usually manually reconnect using wicd, it can do this
automatically but there's a long timeout first before it realizes the
connection was dropped.

The router logs have very little in them, all I see is my laptop asking
for and getting a new IP. Laptop logs show this:

Oct 30 13:10:45 khamul dhcpcd[24141]: wlan0: carrier lost
Oct 30 13:10:45 khamul kernel: [229075.169304] cfg80211: Calling CRDA
to update world regulatory domain Oct 30 13:10:45 khamul kernel:
[229075.214909] cfg80211: World regulatory domain updated: Oct 30
13:10:45 khamul kernel: [229075.214911] cfg80211:   (start_freq -
end_freq @ bandwidth), (max_antenna_gain, max_eirp) Oct 30 13:10:45
khamul kernel: [229075.214913] cfg80211:   (2402000 KHz
- 2472000 KHz @ 40000 KHz), (300 mBi, 2000 mBm)

followed by the usual verbose junk of reconnection logs.

I wouldn't even know where to start debugging this. The only unusual
part of the setup is I don't use the router's dhcp server, that is done
with dhcp-4.2.4_p2 on a separate wired Gentoo server.

Anyone have a logical series of debug steps I can apply?

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] wireless dropping connections

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 13:29:43 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> I'm using wicd-1.7.2.4-r1 and a NetGear DGN2200M v2 wireless AP
> (802.11n)
> 
> Several times a day, this thing just drops wireless. I doubt it's my
> laptop as other devices in the house also get affected.

Have you tried switching to a different channel, just in case it is caused
by interference?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

This universe is sold by mass, not by volume.
Some expansion may have occurred during shipment

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Re: [gentoo-user] wireless dropping connections

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 11:45:37 +0000
Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 13:29:43 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> > I'm using wicd-1.7.2.4-r1 and a NetGear DGN2200M v2 wireless AP
> > (802.11n)
> > 
> > Several times a day, this thing just drops wireless. I doubt it's my
> > laptop as other devices in the house also get affected.
> 
> Have you tried switching to a different channel, just in case it is
> caused by interference?
> 
> 


Actually, I hadn't tried that. I use channel 8 and this is at my house.
I've only ever seen 2 other neighbour's APs show up and they both use
channel 1.

But then common sense kicked in. All previous APs have been 802.11g,
this is the first 802.11g, and it sits next to a cordless phone. I
really should mount the AP up high and extend the cable.



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] wireless dropping connections

[Eliezer Croitoru]

On 10/30/2012 9:26 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
> Actually, I hadn't tried that. I use channel 8 and this is at my house.
> I've only ever seen 2 other neighbour's APs show up and they both use
> channel 1.
>
> But then common sense kicked in. All previous APs have been 802.11g,
> this is the first 802.11g, and it sits next to a cordless phone. I
> really should mount the AP up high and extend the cable.
most cordless phones that works on 2.4 ghz are not suppose to affect 
your wireless connection.
many of them wont even work in 2.4 ghz but at 5+ ghz.

Regards

-- 
Eliezer Croitoru
https://www1.ngtech.co.il
IT consulting for Nonprofit organizations
eliezer <at> ngtech.co.il

Re: [gentoo-user] wireless dropping connections

[William Kenworthy]

On Tue, 2012-10-30 at 21:26 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 11:45:37 +0000
> Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 13:29:43 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm using wicd-1.7.2.4-r1 and a NetGear DGN2200M v2 wireless AP
> > > (802.11n)
> > > 
> > > Several times a day, this thing just drops wireless. I doubt it's my
> > > laptop as other devices in the house also get affected.
> > 
> > Have you tried switching to a different channel, just in case it is
> > caused by interference?
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Actually, I hadn't tried that. I use channel 8 and this is at my house.
> I've only ever seen 2 other neighbour's APs show up and they both use
> channel 1.
> 
> But then common sense kicked in. All previous APs have been 802.11g,
> this is the first 802.11g, and it sits next to a cordless phone. I
> really should mount the AP up high and extend the cable.
> 
> 
> 

Keep in mind there are only 3 non-overlapping channels in the 11 channel
allocation scheme ... channel 8 is not one of them.  If you have no
neighbours thats fine, but even (perhaps especially because of the
hidden node effect/problem) distant stations can effect your throughput.

Still, that phone you mention must be suspect number 1 :)

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] wireless dropping connections

[Bill Kenworthy]

outside interference? (usual is a microwave oven) - is there a device
closer to the AP that stays in better lock because the signal is strong
enough to override the interference?

BillK

On Tue, 2012-10-30 at 13:29 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> I'm using wicd-1.7.2.4-r1 and a NetGear DGN2200M v2 wireless AP
> (802.11n)

> Several times a day, this thing just drops wireless. I doubt it's my
> laptop as other devices in the house also get affected. When this
> happens I usually manually reconnect using wicd, it can do this
> automatically but there's a long timeout first before it realizes the
> connection was dropped.
> 
> The router logs have very little in them, all I see is my laptop asking
> for and getting a new IP. Laptop logs show this:
> 
> Oct 30 13:10:45 khamul dhcpcd[24141]: wlan0: carrier lost
> Oct 30 13:10:45 khamul kernel: [229075.169304] cfg80211: Calling CRDA
> to update world regulatory domain Oct 30 13:10:45 khamul kernel:
> [229075.214909] cfg80211: World regulatory domain updated: Oct 30
> 13:10:45 khamul kernel: [229075.214911] cfg80211:   (start_freq -
> end_freq @ bandwidth), (max_antenna_gain, max_eirp) Oct 30 13:10:45
> khamul kernel: [229075.214913] cfg80211:   (2402000 KHz
> - 2472000 KHz @ 40000 KHz), (300 mBi, 2000 mBm)
> 
> followed by the usual verbose junk of reconnection logs.
> 
> I wouldn't even know where to start debugging this. The only unusual
> part of the setup is I don't use the router's dhcp server, that is done
> with dhcp-4.2.4_p2 on a separate wired Gentoo server.
> 
> Anyone have a logical series of debug steps I can apply?
> 

Re: [gentoo-user] wireless dropping connections

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 19:47:34 +0800
Bill Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au> wrote:

> outside interference? (usual is a microwave oven) - is there a device
> closer to the AP that stays in better lock because the signal is
> strong enough to override the interference?

There is a long range Siemens cordless phone that hides behind the
extra monitor :-)

It's hidden because

a. the power cable is short
b. I hate phones and usually pretend to myself they don't exist




> 
> BillK
> 
> On Tue, 2012-10-30 at 13:29 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > I'm using wicd-1.7.2.4-r1 and a NetGear DGN2200M v2 wireless AP
> > (802.11n)
> 
> > Several times a day, this thing just drops wireless. I doubt it's my
> > laptop as other devices in the house also get affected. When this
> > happens I usually manually reconnect using wicd, it can do this
> > automatically but there's a long timeout first before it realizes
> > the connection was dropped.
> > 
> > The router logs have very little in them, all I see is my laptop
> > asking for and getting a new IP. Laptop logs show this:
> > 
> > Oct 30 13:10:45 khamul dhcpcd[24141]: wlan0: carrier lost
> > Oct 30 13:10:45 khamul kernel: [229075.169304] cfg80211: Calling
> > CRDA to update world regulatory domain Oct 30 13:10:45 khamul
> > kernel: [229075.214909] cfg80211: World regulatory domain updated:
> > Oct 30 13:10:45 khamul kernel: [229075.214911] cfg80211:
> > (start_freq - end_freq @ bandwidth), (max_antenna_gain, max_eirp)
> > Oct 30 13:10:45 khamul kernel: [229075.214913] cfg80211:   (2402000
> > KHz
> > - 2472000 KHz @ 40000 KHz), (300 mBi, 2000 mBm)
> > 
> > followed by the usual verbose junk of reconnection logs.
> > 
> > I wouldn't even know where to start debugging this. The only unusual
> > part of the setup is I don't use the router's dhcp server, that is
> > done with dhcp-4.2.4_p2 on a separate wired Gentoo server.
> > 
> > Anyone have a logical series of debug steps I can apply?
> > 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

[gentoo-user] Re: wireless dropping connections

[James]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon <at> gmail.com> writes:


> b. I hate phones and usually pretend to myself they don't exist

Ah,

There is your debug semantic. Just unplug the phone for a while
and see if the wireless issues go away. It so, you've fingerd
the culprit. If not, you can ponder your alternatives while 
enjoying some quite time....

hth,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: wireless dropping connections

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:39:46 +0000 (UTC)
James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

> Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
> 
> > b. I hate phones and usually pretend to myself they don't exist
> 
> Ah,
> 
> There is your debug semantic. Just unplug the phone for a while
> and see if the wireless issues go away. It so, you've fingerd
> the culprit. If not, you can ponder your alternatives while 
> enjoying some quite time....

I wish I could :-(

that phone is the master base station for the other two slave handsets.
Unplug it, and the house phone stops working; this will upset
missus/daughter mightily as they can't speak to granny 10 time a day
anymore. [ don't ask, please don't ask :-) ]


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: wireless dropping connections

[Peter Humphrey]

On Thursday 01 November 2012 00:07:36 Alan McKinnon wrote:

> that phone is the master base station for the other two slave
> handsets. Unplug it, and the house phone stops working; this will
> upset missus/daughter mightily as they can't speak to granny 10 time
> a day anymore. [ don't ask, please don't ask :-) ]

Ah, sympathy duly offered.

Surely you could negotiate a period of a few minutes in which to conduct 
a test? At least then you'd know.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: wireless dropping connections

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 01:49:21 +0000
Peter Humphrey <peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:

> On Thursday 01 November 2012 00:07:36 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> > that phone is the master base station for the other two slave
> > handsets. Unplug it, and the house phone stops working; this will
> > upset missus/daughter mightily as they can't speak to granny 10 time
> > a day anymore. [ don't ask, please don't ask :-) ]
> 
> Ah, sympathy duly offered.
> 
> Surely you could negotiate a period of a few minutes in which to
> conduct a test? At least then you'd know.
> 

I'd need a full day to do a reasonable test.

I suppose I could just issue a decree:

"Nov 3 shall now be known as No Phone Day"!



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: wireless dropping connections

[Mark Knecht]

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On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 01:49:21 +0000
> Peter Humphrey <peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
>
> > On Thursday 01 November 2012 00:07:36 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >
> > > that phone is the master base station for the other two slave
> > > handsets. Unplug it, and the house phone stops working; this will
> > > upset missus/daughter mightily as they can't speak to granny 10 time
> > > a day anymore. [ don't ask, please don't ask :-) ]
> >
> > Ah, sympathy duly offered.
> >
> > Surely you could negotiate a period of a few minutes in which to
> > conduct a test? At least then you'd know.
> >
>
> I'd need a full day to do a reasonable test.
>
> I suppose I could just issue a decree:
>
> "Nov 3 shall now be known as No Phone Day"!
>
>
>
> --
> Alan McKinnon
> alan.mckinnon@gmail.com
>
>
> Keep looking for other EMI sources. Over the summer I took the side of my
server case off to clean dust out the CPU heat sink. With the machine back
in place but the side of the case off the AP in my office was dropping
packets all over the place. Download speeds went to about 30%. Case back on
and speeds went right back up.

Keep looking for EMI sources near the router. Mess with the antenna
positions. If all the machines are having trouble then most likely it's
something in that area, phone or otherwise.

Good luck,
Mark

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: wireless dropping connections

[covici]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 01:49:21 +0000
> Peter Humphrey <peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Thursday 01 November 2012 00:07:36 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > 
> > > that phone is the master base station for the other two slave
> > > handsets. Unplug it, and the house phone stops working; this will
> > > upset missus/daughter mightily as they can't speak to granny 10 time
> > > a day anymore. [ don't ask, please don't ask :-) ]
> > 
> > Ah, sympathy duly offered.
> > 
> > Surely you could negotiate a period of a few minutes in which to
> > conduct a test? At least then you'd know.
> > 
> 
> I'd need a full day to do a reasonable test.
> 
> I suppose I could just issue a decree:
> 
> "Nov 3 shall now be known as No Phone Day"!

Why not just forward the line to a cell phone for a few hours?

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: wireless dropping connections

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 17:21:09 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> I'd need a full day to do a reasonable test.
> 
> I suppose I could just issue a decree:
> 
> "Nov 3 shall now be known as No Phone Day"!

Unplug the phone and blame the telco, I'm sure you could come up with a
convincing sounding but totally meaningless explanation :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Top Oxymorons Number 17: Clearly misunderstood

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Re: [gentoo-user] wireless dropping connections

[Bruce Hill]

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 01:29:43PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> I'm using wicd-1.7.2.4-r1 and a NetGear DGN2200M v2 wireless AP
> (802.11n)
> 
> Several times a day, this thing just drops wireless. I doubt it's my
> laptop as other devices in the house also get affected. When this
> happens I usually manually reconnect using wicd, it can do this
> automatically but there's a long timeout first before it realizes the
> connection was dropped.

ack on the interference...

Last year we experienced this identical problem, and changed the router to
channel 11. It was the cordless phone on the same channel for us.
-- 
Happy Penguin Computers               >')
126 Fenco Drive                       ( \
Tupelo, MS 38801                       ^^
support@happypenguincomputers.com
662-269-2706 662-205-6424
http://happypenguincomputers.com/

Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting

Re: [gentoo-user] wireless dropping connections

[Paul Hartman]

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm using wicd-1.7.2.4-r1 and a NetGear DGN2200M v2 wireless AP
> (802.11n)
>
> Several times a day, this thing just drops wireless.

Has it always done this? If not, did anything change around the time
the problem started? Upgrading drivers/kernel, firmware on router,
change of internet connection speed, usage patters, etc.

I had a D-Link router that would reboot itself every time there were
more than 100 or so connections. That meant any time something like
bittorrent was used, it would reboot every 10 or 15 minutes until the
network traffic died down. The same router would melt down under the
load from 10mbps network traffic.

I have a Buffalo router running OpenWrt whose network disconnects
randomly, including wired network. The box doesn't reboot but
networking gets reset or something. Usually happens once or twice an
hour. Stock firmware and DD-WRT also suffer from widely-reported
disconnect issues, so this may be another defective design...

And I have a high-power microwave oven that kills all wifi connections
in the entire house every time it is used. The food comes out nice and
hot, though. :)

Re: [gentoo-user] wireless dropping connections

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:01:26 -0500
Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Alan McKinnon
> <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm using wicd-1.7.2.4-r1 and a NetGear DGN2200M v2 wireless AP
> > (802.11n)
> >
> > Several times a day, this thing just drops wireless.
> 
> Has it always done this? If not, did anything change around the time
> the problem started? Upgrading drivers/kernel, firmware on router,
> change of internet connection speed, usage patters, etc.

It's done it since new (which was recently) and nothing else changed.
The XBox, tablets, phones and the missus' Windows laptop all show the
same problem - so it's not Gentoo :-)

Wireless was always stable on all my previous b/g routers, but this one
is n and has been doing it out of the box.

I switched it from channel 8 to channel 1 yesterday and now find it
disconnects more often. Next step I think is to try 6 and 11 in that
order whilst making the local hardware store owner weathly by buying
trunking and moving the device

> I had a D-Link router that would reboot itself every time there were
> more than 100 or so connections. That meant any time something like
> bittorrent was used, it would reboot every 10 or 15 minutes until the
> network traffic died down. The same router would melt down under the
> load from 10mbps network traffic.
> 
> I have a Buffalo router running OpenWrt whose network disconnects
> randomly, including wired network. The box doesn't reboot but
> networking gets reset or something. Usually happens once or twice an
> hour. Stock firmware and DD-WRT also suffer from widely-reported
> disconnect issues, so this may be another defective design...

I've seen issues like that many times too. 

It used to be I could go down to stores at work and book out a nice
shiny new Cisco with pro-grade wireless chips and drivers, no question
asked. Those things are rock solid and refuse to die, we have 1000s in
the field that have never been touched for years. 

I can still book stuff out, but lately it's a Billion I'd get :-(

 
> And I have a high-power microwave oven that kills all wifi connections
> in the entire house every time it is used. The food comes out nice and
> hot, though. :)
 
:-)


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

[gentoo-user] Re: wireless dropping connections

[James]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon <at> gmail.com> writes:


> It's done it since new (which was recently) and nothing else changed.
> The XBox, tablets, phones and the missus' Windows laptop all show the
> same problem - so it's not Gentoo 

Alan,

Sometimes Rf issues that are peculiar and anomalous have a component
of the problem being poor grounding. Check your grounding as
here in Florida, grounding often goes out of spec (too high)
due to corrosion on the grounding rods over time. It's best to use 
a "triad" of grounding rods and test by "ohming" the ground
measurement.

Alas, and this really sucks, you may have a combination of
issues, particularly transient conditions where someone is
using a ham radio in your area or such, or some neighbor
that is using a welder. Those sorts of noise/power distortions
are sometimes impossible to pin down. Long the drops and see
if some patterns of recurring time stamps are present...
Some "dirty" power supplies that are found anywhere downstream of
the (power) distribution transformer can "wig out" Rf power supplies
quite easily.


hth,
James