From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C566138BF3 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 20:32:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 08387E0B86; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 20:32:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-la0-f46.google.com (mail-la0-f46.google.com [209.85.215.46]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBE2FE0B7E for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 20:32:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-la0-f46.google.com with SMTP id b8so10236719lan.33 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 12:32:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2He540ERr0PpY655IHVnOdKs49bRbeEyyk9mUI29E1M=; b=NXO7zFBeYxu/vjLIJ58/2/p6GNRtYyxLkLAMy7CRzR6y2Q13nU6XMHBZxf8dArrNoC viktyUFtkQkQpiv+jZXkXibG2IyZYjz4L4FnPuxrwnM6r6K/pw719s24tU0/gcDYaS3j VSktpyaLvrSI6uo6a9ysmr6WZVHl3nmF+B4eWnMBZRRkGDvidIwvfeChGvPcjbGRiAom U0RYqt5GG0/wn9XM6h66cIRy6EgzrMj0chArXucCNGdDgB3uElNMue/AiM/+fCGRwNTb SHTzFawNe/oX5Anie13/6gtjXJ7xfoJqdB9mQnRqkIoaV6JrxD8lBI3TtGQAeBw9JjoU iKYw== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.4.68 with SMTP id i4mr10880839lai.8.1392496332132; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 12:32:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.170.67 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Feb 2014 12:32:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201402152023.10543.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <52FF9D58.3000608@libertytrek.org> <201402152023.10543.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 14:32:12 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw6lz?= To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 05508b79-d6bd-4baa-b05f-e9626119eb59 X-Archives-Hash: b7d46904db673d3eb1d2e8693f6663ad On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Mick wrote: > On Saturday 15 Feb 2014 17:32:44 Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote: >> On Feb 15, 2014 11:02 AM, "Tanstaafl" wrote: >> > On 2014-02-15 10:16 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Not to revive a flame-fest against systemd, but... >> >> >> >> I'm sure some or most of you have already heard about this, but I fou= nd >> >> a really decent thread discussing this whole systemd thing. It is onl= y >> >> really comparing systemd and upstart, as that was the debate going on= in >> >> the debian TC, but it is a great read, and has actually made me rethi= nk >> >> my blind objections to systemd a bit. >> > >> > One of which was logging: >> > >> > "20. Myth: systemd makes it impossible to run syslog. >> > >> > Not true, we carefully made sure when we introduced the journal that a= ll >> >> data is also passed on to any syslog daemon running. In fact, if somethi= ng >> changed, then only that syslog gets more complete data now than it got >> before, since we now cover early boot stuff as well as STDOUT/STDERR of = any >> system service." >> >> > From: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html >> >> Also, for those of you who don't follow Linux-related news, Ubuntu will >> also change to systemd in the future: >> >> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316 >> >> And I *heard* that Slackware was also discussing the possibility, but si= nce >> I don't follow Slackware at all, I don't know for sure. >> >> Anyway, distros not using systemd, and that they are not really small >> and/or niche, seem to be disappearing. The discussion that Tanstaafl pos= ted >> is interesting since the arguments used by the four TC members are reall= y >> focused on the technical merits of the proposed init systems. > > There was a thread sometime last year mentioning a slimmer/slicker and ob= eying > to the *nix design principles initialisation system, but can't find it at= the > moment. Isn't that at all in the running? For Slackware, I have no idea. For Debian, no the only options were[1]: 1. sysvinit (status quo) 2. systemd 3. upstart 4. openrc (experimental) 5. One system on Linux, something else on non-linux 6. multiple It should also be noted that no one in the TC voted OpenRC above systemd AND upstart, and that while a couple voted systemd below everything else, it can be argued that it was a tactical vote. Regards. [1] https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/ --=20 Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingenier=C3=ADa de la Computaci=C3=B3n Universidad Nacional Aut=C3=B3noma de M=C3=A9xico