From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1S7F4k-0001tc-8H for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 23:54:50 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F7A8E09B4; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 23:54:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-iy0-f181.google.com (mail-iy0-f181.google.com [209.85.210.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40EBCE0A87 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 23:53:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iaoo28 with SMTP id o28so9065648iao.40 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 16:53:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9fVb02W43YdgOR4DF3VStupdY8+nt3ySf+zOxA8ZxNg=; b=bSUYIJ46XTM1HbATmTNbsIpNXsL6IIogxEmOS7rAIZ3wDNj7+FIz8yK3Z4aJWtLEKz KoO4C6uBiTBpjhFkA1CaERMJTfAeNO0y0SFhRhnehkKs0wRaEQfOYZyHSLcA+gf06PpX BFYSUaQD6Z7bbpprWRyCwrv86LKvyBSqZ2IG1DGGzqqKyt5RbWumlLXh9ACo6OScW1VL 6Lnr3zLb0gmrLYLFShAM09fgrUMFH7A0z5A4C1g06TvKAcQz0prZqFAjchJPqKBLyqme 0dIjs7dX69Ni5Vx5KoukygNkaBzkHfe2DDst5t+0nrm7ccxfew5UWUluEJnN0FZpwSZ9 dpzw== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.218.228 with SMTP id pj4mr3637529pbc.167.1331596409464; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 16:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.59.231 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 16:53:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4F5E853F.8060404@gmail.com> References: <4F5AC0F6.6000804@gmail.com> <4F5B33CA.2020705@coolmail.se> <20120310153540.5194cd7c@digimed.co.uk> <4F5BBE7A.8040802@coolmail.se> <4F5C724C.1010708@coolmail.se> <292166434.606817.1331577566543.JavaMail.open-xchange@email.1and1.com> <4F5E853F.8060404@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 17:53:29 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: LVM, /usr and really really bad thoughts. From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw6lz?= To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: e8c0e42e-7656-419e-acbe-198e19e34597 X-Archives-Hash: 7e1f8087cfb9011a99b561c00d62c3a9 On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 5:22 PM, Dale wrote: > Bruce Hill, Jr. wrote: >> >> >> >> On March 12, 2012 at 2:30 PM Michael Mol wrote: >> >>> Don't forget you're using Gentoo; you're implicitly not very far >>> removed from the skill levels of the developers themselves. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> :wq >>> >> >> Maybe you're not, but it only takes me a few minutes being around chithe= ad >> and NeddySeagoon for me to realize "I ain't gotta Gentoo clue!" >> -- >> Happy Penguin Computers =C2=A0 =C2=A0>`) >> 126 Fenco Drive =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0( \ >> Tupelo, MS 38801 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0^^ >> 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613 >> support at happypenguincomputers dot com >> http://www.happypenguincomputers.com >> >> > > > I like that quote. =C2=A0I may not be dev material but I know this /usr m= ess > is not right. =C2=A0The only reason it is happening is because of one or = two > distros that push it to make it easier for themselves. I have yet to see some hard evidence on this claim. > I think mdev has shown it can be fixed. As Alan said in other thread, it can be "fixed" (if you think is not right) for some very specific cases. Alan mentioned servers, really simple desktops with simple hotplug devices, and embedded systems. For mdev to "fix" the situation in the general case, it would have to cover all the setups udev covers. That means bluetooth devices (including keyboards and mice), USB soundcards, touch screens and the like, all of them being plugged and unplugged at any time in any order. Maybe someday mdev will be able to handle all the cases that udev does. If it does (which I honestly doubt), I'm pretty sure at that point it would have become as complex as udev, if not more, and it will probably need the same requirements that udev has. Including the simple one that for mounting a filesystem, the plumbing needed to mounting it has to be available before, and we cannot keep throwing everything directly on / so it can mount /usr. And BTW, the split between /bin /usr/bin has always been idiotic and it was originally an accident: you can read the true story of the split in http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html But for the simple cases that Alan mentioned, the mdev solution is perfectly fine if for some reason someone keeps refusing to use an initramfs. >=C2=A0Given time, it just may replace > udev I'm willing to bet a beer this will not happen. > then the udev dev can screw up his own stuff on not bother other > distros. No one is forcing any part of the stack on anyone. The "other" distros follows because it's the correct technical solution. At least I'm convinced it is; I have yet to see some hard evidence on the contrary. > =C2=A0I'm giving mdev some thought here. =C2=A0I want /usr on LVM which > means it has to be separate. And in this case an initramfs is the best option, so we can stop polluting / with support for everything necessary under the sun (now or in the future) for mounting /usr. That's the way I see it anyhow. Doesn't stop mdev from being a beautiful ha= ck. Regards. --=20 Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingenier=C3=ADa de la Computaci=C3=B3n Universidad Nacional Aut=C3=B3noma de M=C3=A9xico