Re: [gentoo-user] Re: LVM, /usr and really really bad thoughts.

["Canek Peláez Valdés" <caneko@gmail.com>]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 5:22 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bruce Hill, Jr. wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On March 12, 2012 at 2:30 PM Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Don't forget you're using Gentoo; you're implicitly not very far
>>> removed from the skill levels of the developers themselves.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> :wq
>>>
>>
>> Maybe you're not, but it only takes me a few minutes being around chithead
>> and NeddySeagoon for me to realize "I ain't gotta Gentoo clue!"
>> --
>> Happy Penguin Computers    >`)
>> 126 Fenco Drive            ( \
>> Tupelo, MS 38801            ^^
>> 662-269-2706; 662-491-8613
>> support at happypenguincomputers dot com
>> http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
>>
>>
>
>
> I like that quote.  I may not be dev material but I know this /usr mess
> is not right.  The only reason it is happening is because of one or two
> distros that push it to make it easier for themselves.

I have yet to see some hard evidence on this claim.

> I think mdev has shown it can be fixed.

As Alan said in other thread, it can be "fixed" (if you think is not
right) for some very specific cases. Alan mentioned servers, really
simple desktops with simple hotplug devices, and embedded systems. For
mdev to "fix" the situation in the general case, it would have to
cover all the setups udev covers. That means bluetooth devices
(including keyboards and mice), USB soundcards, touch screens and the
like, all of them being plugged and unplugged at any time in any
order.

Maybe someday mdev will be able to handle all the cases that udev
does. If it does (which I honestly doubt), I'm pretty sure at that
point it would have become as complex as udev, if not more, and it
will probably need the same requirements that udev has. Including the
simple one that for mounting a filesystem, the plumbing needed to
mounting it has to be available before, and we cannot keep throwing
everything directly on / so it can mount /usr. And BTW, the split
between /bin /usr/bin has always been idiotic and it was originally an
accident: you can read the true story of the split in

http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html

But for the simple cases that Alan mentioned, the mdev solution is
perfectly fine if for some reason someone keeps refusing to use an
initramfs.

> Given time, it just may replace
> udev

I'm willing to bet a beer this will not happen.

> then the udev dev can screw up his own stuff on not bother other
> distros.

No one is forcing any part of the stack on anyone. The "other" distros
follows because it's the correct technical solution. At least I'm
convinced it is; I have yet to see some hard evidence on the contrary.

>  I'm giving mdev some thought here.  I want /usr on LVM which
> means it has to be separate.

And in this case an initramfs is the best option, so we can stop
polluting / with support for everything necessary under the sun (now
or in the future) for mounting /usr.

That's the way I see it anyhow. Doesn't stop mdev from being a beautiful hack.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México