From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C059B138745 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:21:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A336621C02C; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:21:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ia0-f175.google.com (mail-ia0-f175.google.com [209.85.210.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10F1A21C005 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:21:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ia0-f175.google.com with SMTP id r4so1157512iaj.6 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:21:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dc1JUFJ8EsROPemt5OL+YDS/dvQYm9LkR4rj6pzYGKw=; b=OvY3v/VMV/Z1s3Kbr9YLuW/Dy26+FAr3nbzdVTMAHxu8Z6Z/Wcl7LvbUsVAd7wKvaB 2oe9CsVIWppX5N4/+a1wnn2o2CcOmC3f3gyvGV/oGTJfVJh0FVVrw1B+n00PWymMVrR5 HSViktfHtKWMn1XuVG1mFL5UfaRrHEG1SSzgdpEX0Np7hLakzxabGGaRVoLVzc2PkCZ6 5alUjOImaArrR0S9NDyoFIzLbza/VfIGXZBZj5YczxrMYfQ/ghk5va4gx1r1mE2HzLie /jLWGKQFVSgcKJpIyz1HE0NRg3cS1esnTEVa3KObLgMpq8VR3f3UuNBXiu5KaBiLbyi7 1eLQ== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.91.7 with SMTP id n7mr1476469icm.40.1359490903183; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:21:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.25.111 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:21:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <5106CB02.9040709@xunil.at> <5106D0B4.2040004@xunil.at> <5106E8B0.2060909@xunil.at> <5106F25A.2040203@xunil.at> <5107F9A1.2010205@xunil.at> <510823FF.8080007@xunil.at> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:21:43 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] *draft* for setting up network bridge with systemd (for qemu/kvm) From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw6lz?= To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: f0e65d13-6efb-47b9-bed5-1489276301fd X-Archives-Hash: 0f51d5bb8d2c3c78248a772d7842901c On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Alon Bar-Lev wrote: > On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote: > >> I would not bet on that ;) too much resistance. However it is >> certainly getting better and better: the LWN article on The Biggest >> Myths about systemd had an overwhelmingly majority of comments >> positive to systemd, and just a handful of negative comments: >> >> http://lwn.net/Articles/534210/#Comments >> >> But that is in LWN; Gentoo is way behind, I believe. > > Gentoo is not behind, it provides you the option of using systemd. > > However openrc is superior in many ways, as unlike systemd it provides > script base metadata vs static systemd units, so for example a service > can depend on other services based on LOGIC. Also, it has the nature > of virtual dependencies what systemd lacks, for example there are N > services that provides timesync, in openrc you provide timesync and > depend on timesync, in systemd there is no way to do so. I really should not enter into this discussion (again), and even less with a Gentoo dev (BTW, thanks for all the great work). However, this: "for example there are N services that provides timesync, in openrc you provide timesync and depend on timesync, in systemd there is no way to do so" it's just a lie (or missinformation). display-manager.service and syslog.service work like this; they are soft links to the desired service (gdm.service and syslog.service, for example), and other units depend on them. They work like virtuals in Gentoo. > openrc is > working in various environments including embedded, while systemd > requires so much dependencies that it is not really usable at all > environments. I don't know about "all environments", but ProFUSION [1] works in embedded systems and several of its developers are systemd upstream. Also GENIVI, the standardized common software platform for developing in-vehicle infotainment (IVI), uses systemd. > openrc can be used correctly in chroot environment, > while systemd is inoperative. I know it's not exactly the same, but with systemd we have systemd-nspawn, which I (IMHO) consider far superior: man 1 systemd-nspawn. > openrc supports extra commands for > services, while systemd enforces only start/stop sequence. I can go on > an on. Yeah, OpenRC needs zap, because sometimes a daemon ends unexpectedly, and OpenRC is unable to detect it. I would not call this an advantage, though. > Just because there is hype of some branding, does not mean it is better. I believe it's better, but it's only my opinion; it's certainly better for my use-cases. I don't want to impose systemd on anyone, but I would be really happy if I could *easily* uninstall OpenRC from Gentoo, since I don't use it. I'm using an ovelay [2] right now, but is far from optimal. And, BTW, I didn't mean "behind" in the sense that Gentoo doesn't support systemd; I meant "behind" in the sense that us systemd users get a lot flak just by mention it in the list. [1] http://www.profusion.mobi/ [2] https://github.com/canek-pelaez/gentoo-systemd-only Regards. --=20 Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingenier=C3=ADa de la Computaci=C3=B3n Universidad Nacional Aut=C3=B3noma de M=C3=A9xico