From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBEB6138E20 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 05:24:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 97FB7E0B76; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 05:24:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-la0-f42.google.com (mail-la0-f42.google.com [209.85.215.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42833E0B53 for ; Thu, 20 Feb 2014 05:24:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-la0-f42.google.com with SMTP id hr13so993096lab.15 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 21:24:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oGeW8pM5vebwjmcJCJfFY5Jg+ohjySNyn2clESx0Lio=; b=vnVu7u6qptuoafGDQfl/MhcLSg36EDkzikWwpvfDh39KUBn8bfVgluzPFBKGPlPA8j DlgnPJO1MY9mxngG05h+cmDXWBsAyQJVw5m6nD6sGbLTxGmMo+8oh/Eq9CAEsL+doGRM 62ARtpglRrGvJbgFZoOMa7GqwtN54PW64utIw/fwrRg4ztmcuVJK3MI7KdxF2vitCUfv 7hyUM3AUGAu0/M92GNpkqiR1YK5QY8J6andKWrhBeDajy4s7yRUExTm6osV+ylHJ9jJO cAqg5momPKHnsoacpoL4qf3izR1qnCsa76XGHLtjo4WLsYd2s4oaLvvvjQI6BoIxemR+ eS3g== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.43.70 with SMTP id u6mr26351518lbl.30.1392873861697; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 21:24:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.170.67 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 21:24:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <31f183759cbab018caa5523ab4974175.squirrel@www.antarean.org> References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <52FF9D58.3000608@libertytrek.org> <201402152023.10543.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> <5300DD51.5060207@libertytrek.org> <53010A8E.2050909@googlemail.com> <53012691.6040503@googlemail.com> <5ea6afc66880871ddec1398bab1e1f17.squirrel@www.antarean.org> <31f183759cbab018caa5523ab4974175.squirrel@www.antarean.org> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 23:24:21 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw6lz?= To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: e80d76ec-7298-48b9-baad-9a317112fd09 X-Archives-Hash: 01c8d4d55652a8cfe9eb272c1cab1f3e On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:50 AM, J. Roeleveld wrote: > On Tue, February 18, 2014 15:37, Canek Pel=C3=83=C2=A1ez Vald=C3=83=C2=A9= s wrote: >> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:54 AM, J. Roeleveld wrote= : >>> As I do not have systemd installed on any machine, I can't check the >>> man-pages. >> >> They are online [1]. > > Useful, but not necessary for this discussion. It was just a pointer. > I see this option as a easter-egg without any real value. How many of > these useless code-paths are implemented? > Can these be disabled at compile time? That's neither here nor there; you said "I would expect an export option providing the same detail level as I currently find in /var/log/messages. A timestamp is a minimum required for logging system output."; I proved to you that the journal shows timestamps and much more, if so desired. [ snip ] >> See if you can easily do that with rsyslog or syslog-ng. > > Not easily, That's (one of) the advantage(s) that the journal brings. BTW, I'm not trying to convince anyone to use the journal (nor systemd); I'm just pointing out about features. > but I do not see the point, beyond as a nice gimmick. Well, I *do* see a point. Many points, actually. You want the logs for SSH, from February 12 to February 15? Done: journalctl --since=3D2014-02-12 --until=3D2014-02-15 -u sshd.service No grep. No cat. No hunting logrotated logs (the journal will rotate automatically its logs, and will search on all logs available). You can have second-precision intervals. Also, the binary format that the journal uses is indexed (hence the binary part); therefore, the search is O(log n), no O(n). With a log with a million entries, that's about 20 steps. Perhaps it's just a gimmick to you. For me is a really usefull > Same question applies, can I disable these code-paths during compile-time= ? No you can't; if you wanted the journal to work exactly as rsyslog (or syslog-ng), then there is no reason to use the journal. Its raison d'=C3=AAtre is the new features it brings. If you don't want those features, don't use the journal. > I have log-parsing scripts that check for unexpected log-entries which > expect syslog-standard logs. I used, too. The journal makes most of then unnecessary, and if I want to, it can provide formatting of the logs in the same way that rsyslog (or syslog-ng) does. > I do not see the need to have to spend time to change working code to be > able to handle different formats. Well, I prefer it when someone does the work for me. > Additionally, the use of "tail -f" and "grep" allows me to check the logs > real-time for debugging purposes. journalctl -f Checks the logs in real time. Again, [1]. > Having to use a seperate tool that converts some proprietary binary forma= t > to human readable/scriptable single-line logs makes no sense. Its not proprietary; the source code is available, you can write your own parser if you want. The binary format is to be able to do O(log n) searches, that's it. It's a performance optimization. > It all sounds too much like the MS Windows Event-viewer to me. Never used it. > Too many events with no usefull logging information (And I am referring t= o > OS-level messages as to why default services are not starting) systemctl status apache2.service (see [2]) will print the status of the Apache web server, and also the last lines from the logs. You can control how many lines. You can check also with the journal, as I showed up. If you *want* to, everything is online. Regards. [1] http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/journalctl.html [2] http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemctl.html --=20 Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingenier=C3=ADa de la Computaci=C3=B3n Universidad Nacional Aut=C3=B3noma de M=C3=A9xico