From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1R1lTU-0007l3-0b for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 20:45:28 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 72B3221C0EE; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 20:44:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ww0-f53.google.com (mail-ww0-f53.google.com [74.125.82.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3B6821C3D5 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 20:42:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wwf25 with SMTP id 25so338735wwf.10 for ; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 13:42:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=c5UIUHBZBt/YCSTt6Fafu9dk8w1iavECwS5O2RxFVu0=; b=ZUNyb9iyvuevwIWDX0oWyW8V1DLsCOScwiy/qods13WiOZAVFfdMyGtdzHPxVJIXz4 gY8UVWtRdsf1UmnwxYSh346iqcu59AGCuwfN4ArADhuYGnhOTffeqokeM2iUNFOtOF7i MB2Gh7+MazdJWm7H57bjczh7VFLmy8+Yhnn/M= Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.181.141 with SMTP id l13mr1140571wem.98.1315514524832; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 13:42:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.39.140 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 13:42:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110908212531.69422844@karnak.local> References: <201108191109.34984.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> <20110907050952.GA2588@linux1> <4E66FFFA.2020600@gmail.com> <201109071923.39954.Dan.Johansson@dmj.nu> <20110907235457.691be720@zaphod.digimed.co.uk> <20110908023729.45d1b985@karnak.local> <20110908174424.49e613b3@karnak.local> <20110908190500.05ebac1f@karnak.local> <20110908212531.69422844@karnak.local> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 16:42:04 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] /dev/sda* missing at boot From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw6lz?= To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: dc8eb2d06e6bd270139fd90e708ed8d4 On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:25 PM, David W Noon wrote: > On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 15:13:55 -0400, Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote ab= out Re: > [gentoo-user] /dev/sda* missing at boot: > >> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 2:05 PM, David W Noon >> wrote: > [snip] >> > I don't know if the kernel offers any particular blessing to any >> > hotplug handler. >> >> udev is the device manager for the Linux kernel. It replaced devfs. > > One can use mdev just as readily as udev. > >> It's related, but doesn't (necessarily) need to be the same that the >> user space part. >> >> Yeah, udev is mandatory in the kernel, unless you use a traditional >> /dev directory. > > But udev isn't actually part of the kernel. =C2=A0Only hotplug support is > actually in the kernel. =C2=A0The udev daemon is started during the sysin= it > run-level and it connects itself to hotplug support. And what do you think the udev daemon speaks to? > [snip] >> >> Dracut automatizes this. Is a non-problem. >> > >> > If dracut actually worked ... >> >> What doesn't work for you? > > Since dracut is not yet stable, I don't have any problems with it > because I don't use it. =C2=A0But it does have quite a few open bugs in > Gentoo's Bugzilla, and I suspect many more in other distro's bug > trackers. Well, dracut's job is not rocket science. >> > During the "do stuff" phase, /usr is also writeable, which is >> > undesirable on production systems. =C2=A0That's the *original* problem >> > with merging a read-only /usr with /. [We seem to be going in >> > circles with this one.] >> >> It's the same when you upgrade the system. If you don't allow rw in >> /user *ever*, then you are not allowed to upgrade. Which I was chewed >> up because I said it was an alternative. > > Production systems have strictly scheduled change-control windows, > usually only once or twice a year. =C2=A0Having to schedule database chan= ges > to match application change-control would not be workable. =C2=A0That is > why /etc cannot be mounted read-only and still have /usr secured as > read-only. =C2=A0This brings us back to a requirement that / and /usr be > physically separate filesystems. > > [snip] >> > I have about 6 or 7 backup jobs that run during the night and >> > parse /etc/mtab to see if they need to place a copy of the backup >> > onto an external medium. =C2=A0These examine the mount options and don= 't >> > understand the non-standard options offered by Linux >> > in /proc/mounts. >> >> Really? You cannot grep -v those options to another file and make the >> jobs read this other file? > > I would use gawk rather than grep. =C2=A0But since I have code that alrea= dy > works, why should I need to develop a new script? > >> In my experience that sounds like a problem with the jobs. > > They work currently. So you want all the new functionality, but without needing to do anything. I want pink ponies too. Just not gonna happen. > Moreover, my rootfs is not read-only. =C2=A0It is not desirable to have t= he > rootfs mounted read-only because of this problem and the other > problems it causes. =C2=A0But for production systems it is desirable for = /usr > to be mounted read-only and only made writeable during a change-control > window. Then use an initramfs and get /usr separated. You can do it on one of your twice a year down times. > [snip] >> > They already don't do that. >> >> Well, then you already know what to do. > > Indeed I do. Regards. --=20 Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingenier=C3=ADa de la Computaci=C3=B3n Universidad Nacional Aut=C3=B3noma de M=C3=A9xico