From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 311A5138BF3 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:16:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0A767E0B70; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:16:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-la0-f50.google.com (mail-la0-f50.google.com [209.85.215.50]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFA29E0B4D for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:16:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-la0-f50.google.com with SMTP id ec20so10490615lab.23 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 13:16:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sD5bBbSa+kENupxDD5ubmfzY7AuvxnlWVFGpgS5NkEI=; b=b0bBnJt3JwiJ90sFSodSu4vdNfyRe82jjugsPPh6F8E0ZHrUGcrKWxesZWA93MVjeZ BewT0mzH/94LiqKyt6gQJQFdP4SW9JcRGnq4bLddQwpg+ixUEFzkzZnmQyVNDBBNpKWP yyITtVYo6CpTaR5d7TpkX0ErCzKiTREgdXP9Af2EShTu2HuJPiJsmuROYmSWdB+ndadP ArBVZzqezeFEvBZe8hxLrhgW0bK5vVwCbCioHWA1AZ50cv/bIFvpceyxGjX9Pk1EOzyW Sqwu8HA3ip+fzWOPyNXTgK8dnIBOEdUVTerWWP8tr45XLe4ja9DUNFiS2zmSAehId4q8 s40Q== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.33.108 with SMTP id q12mr14093839lbi.8.1392585396292; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 13:16:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.170.67 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 13:16:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <53012691.6040503@googlemail.com> References: <52FF84CE.2050301@libertytrek.org> <52FF9D58.3000608@libertytrek.org> <201402152023.10543.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> <5300DD51.5060207@libertytrek.org> <53010A8E.2050909@googlemail.com> <53012691.6040503@googlemail.com> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 15:16:36 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw6lz?= To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: c95d4250-d3e1-4228-b101-7ce68f06d14b X-Archives-Hash: 2f06a92f0fae160b3b0d3685d6dafc3a On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > Am 16.02.2014 21:08, schrieb Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s: >> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann >> wrote: >> [ snip ] >>> or it is an idiotic decision. Because features means complexity. >> Yeah, like the kernel. >> >>> Complexity means bugs. >> Bugs get reported, bugs get fixes. Life goes on. You didn't answered this, did you? >>> And you don't want complexity in PID1 or init. Let those 'features' be >>> handled by their own specialists. >> Almost all the features of systemd live outside of PID 1. >> >>> You know, the unix way. Do one thing, do it well. >> This is from my desktop machine: >> >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-reply-password >> /usr/lib/systemd/ntp-units.d >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-coredump >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-hostnamed >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-binfmt >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-localed >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-machined >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-sleep >> /usr/lib/systemd/system-generators >> /usr/lib/systemd/system-generators/systemd-system-update-generator >> /usr/lib/systemd/system-generators/systemd-gpt-auto-generator >> /usr/lib/systemd/system-generators/systemd-efi-boot-generator >> /usr/lib/systemd/system-generators/systemd-fstab-generator >> /usr/lib/systemd/system-generators/systemd-getty-generator >> /usr/lib/systemd/system-generators/gentoo-local-generator >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-fsck >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-bootchart >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-shutdown >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-random-seed >> /usr/lib/systemd/system-sleep >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-remount-fs >> /usr/lib/systemd/user-generators >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-sysctl >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-timedated >> /usr/lib/systemd/catalog >> /usr/lib/systemd/system-shutdown >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-multi-seat-x >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-cgroups-agent >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-user-sessions >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-journal-gatewayd >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-quotacheck >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-shutdownd >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-modules-load >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-backlight >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-ac-power >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-initctl >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-readahead >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-journald >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-activate >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-update-utmp >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-vconsole-setup >> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-logind >> >> All of them are different tools providing one capability to systemd as >> a whole. So systemd is a collection of tools, where each one does one >> thing, and it does it well. >> >> By your definition, systemd perfectly follows "the unix way". >> > > no, it isn't. > > How are those binaries talk to each other? dbus, which is about to be integrated into the kernel with kdbus. > Besides - why is garbage essential for booting in /usr? Is not. Most of it is optional, in a server I have there are much less bina= ries. > Looks broken. Broken by design. The worst form of broken. By your opinion, not others. >>> Use text to communicate. >> systemd can comunicate basically everything via text: >> >> centurion ~ # systemctl show sshd.service | head >> Id=3Dsshd.service >> Names=3Dsshd.service >> Requires=3Dbasic.target >> Wants=3Dsystem.slice >> WantedBy=3Dmulti-user.target >> Conflicts=3Dshutdown.target >> Before=3Dshutdown.target multi-user.target >> After=3Dsyslog.target network.target auditd.service >> systemd-journald.socket basic.target system.slice >> Description=3DOpenSSH server daemon >> LoadState=3Dloaded >> >> For performance reasons, some things are passed or stored as data. Bu >> everything works with text also. So, again, it passes your definition. >> > > oh? I can pipe that output into cat or any any daemon I like? Doesn't > look like so. But it does, you can "cat" with journalctl; it's one of its output options: -o, --output=3D cat generates a very terse output only showing the actual message of each journal entry with no meta data, not even a timestamp. >>> That stuff. That makes things easy. And flexible. And replaceable. >> Easy to whom? And systemd is more flexible that a lot of init systems, >> in my opinion including OpenRC. > > oh really? because everything is done by the magical P=C3=B6ttering? OK, sorry, I thought you wanted to have a civil, serious, technical conversation. I'm done with you in this thread. Regards. --=20 Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingenier=C3=ADa de la Computaci=C3=B3n Universidad Nacional Aut=C3=B3noma de M=C3=A9xico