From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1R1l75-0005ol-I5 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 20:22:20 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C122D21C275; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 20:22:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ww0-f53.google.com (mail-ww0-f53.google.com [74.125.82.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5EAB21C087 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 20:21:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wwf25 with SMTP id 25so318303wwf.10 for ; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 13:21:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Srja1UO9uAYc07Ov+JXk45d0tzmb+L93P/6bwryUWCA=; b=Qa4sJZ/A9EzvpKsTWvwZ+w/pITo5X1FHQ5hUOZY8AYd+1oq9KrkqHsBS5y77+O7Qri yp/dPygXkFb11Z1ahikmhUsnFDrSPgippDINc/c9+wCuK5PS4Vh77OkN4pUqAokny9ZB PfSVeApB6RbjMKoiSkL4kbO/hEStx1NEogc6s= Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.230.213 with SMTP id j63mr1108830weq.113.1315513271715; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 13:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.39.140 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 13:21:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110908214836.014d6adc@rohan> References: <201108191109.34984.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> <20110908023729.45d1b985@karnak.local> <4495743.s0RYfxWcgT@pc> <20110908214836.014d6adc@rohan> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 16:21:11 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] /dev/sda* missing at boot From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw6lz?= To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: 3de2223e2c93b00ad020039fabcdaa93 On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Alan McKinnon wro= te: > On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 11:13:58 -0400 > Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote: > >> > Have you *ever* thought about machines, that are not x86 or x86_64? >> > Here's an intersting read: >> > http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/72769 >> >> No, I haven't thought about them, because I don't use them. What it >> has to do with anything? > > Linux runs on many many many more arches than just x86 and amd64. IIRC > it's about 29 in total. > > Do you agree that the needs and requirements of all those other arches > might be important to everything else? I'm not saying it's not important, I'm saying that the needs of the less used archs cannot slow down the development of the most popular ones. Again, is an economic reason: we don't have enough devs. > You keep mentioning "it will all work if you just use an initramfs". > Did it occur to you that that statement is the entire problem and > demonstrates the problem nicely? No, because it's not a solution decided because of laziness, which many here seem to think it is. > I do not have an initramfs, do not > need one, see no need to have one and have not yet seen a valid > technical reason for why having one is ideal. It's not "ideal" (I don't think anybody has said that). Almost nothing is "ideal" in computer science. Maybe it's not enough for you, but I repeat: we need dynamic /dev trees, udev giveus that, the udev code lives in user space, we need an early user space =3D> initramfs. > My gentoo systems do not > run binary distros, I have no need for a generic mechanism designed to > cope with any hardware Fedora might happen to find itself booting on, > hardware that the devs have no idea of when they compile their distros. Hey, I compile all my modules inside my kernels. That has nothing to do with udev, because you can connect via USB or eSATA *any* hardware into your computer, and the /dev tree needs to update dynamically. Maybe *you* don't want that, and that's fine: but the majority of users do want that. Your use-case is not the most important one in the whole world. > I, on the other hand, already know everything I need to know about my > hardware for the purposes of booting, running udev and building a valid > kernel that fits my needs. Me too. And yet, I use an initramfs for the pretty plymouth splash screen. > Tell me again what it is that validly requires me to switch to some new > way of doing things? Nothing: if you don't like it, don't use it (or use an alternative), or change it. Regards. --=20 Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingenier=C3=ADa de la Computaci=C3=B3n Universidad Nacional Aut=C3=B3noma de M=C3=A9xico