From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 958EF1381F3 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 22:08:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 672F4E09C5; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 22:08:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-la0-f41.google.com (mail-la0-f41.google.com [209.85.215.41]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D86A2E09AD for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 22:08:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-la0-f41.google.com with SMTP id fn20so3208659lab.0 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 15:08:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=r+En2o+RHiw8cEDrYPv4P0d/M2cChOVFatwxB7AOSiU=; b=cVzlgc7VsfFB9PPhYugA+oxZWxyuyCNYt3g4tEEJPmTBqh06dC0GZ67QT78hrN2mc6 lDEZ2sOYKBe2dTdXOn2eCzYEvJs+Mh/RBA9MNBIlIuPPJDouc0rJ9H1w+HtWqti6GWdz TBlZMWpg1ymXIXWV0o9JWVJYcl1/hDrf4dvVBR6db2SLpeTyWD+HC8zJBVIpxLlpLZnB NSiNRnpo30y1fTNetiLy2680WOeC9ZH3vbeLB5L2A2JONWPr458sgRjmYdY/gXJNZcZ3 H5MjRlZsaSN4W1B5oRWlQ+6QbQQqeiw4g+TCV3rQHZRSxrslmbO6EceOfhC7RWYjYGAL p3ig== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.5.66 with SMTP id q2mr4267542laq.13.1374962902112; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 15:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.96.2 with HTTP; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 15:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.96.2 with HTTP; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 15:08:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 17:08:22 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] [~amd64] Some possibly (?) helpful hints re the big gnome-3.8 update From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw6lz?= To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0141a1ce5c1d5f04e2857f14 X-Archives-Salt: 6931e093-0b00-4f19-9d77-0321971e8bf8 X-Archives-Hash: cf3d9ccabc78d3a4bc5970f1efce5706 --089e0141a1ce5c1d5f04e2857f14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Jul 27, 2013 4:44 PM, "walt" wrote: > > First hint: it's a mess -- don't do it on a critical machine. > (My main machine is ~amd64 and that's why I'm doing it on virtual > ~amd64 machines first.) > > The new gnome-shell demands that systemd be installed, even if you > don't intend to use it. > > The latest systemd conflicts with udev because the udev project > has been rolled into systemd, which now provides all of the files > previously installed by udev. > > Therefore your machine will still boot without udev because systemd > installs all the udev files. You don't need to start or use systemd > if you don't want to, but the systemd package must be installed > *before* you reboot and after removing udev. > > Removal of udev has caused a few (temporary) problems with useflags, > because a few packages still depend directly on udev instead of the > newer (!systemd ? udev) which means accept either one but not both. > That will get fixed soon, I'm sure. > > The right way to upgrade gnome is probably to remove every gnome > package on the machine, which will avoid many of the conflicts I've > had to fight for the last two days -- but of course I did it the hard > way instead :) > > You can try emerge -au gnome-light early in the update, which is > simpler than emerging gnome in all its immensity, but that's no > guarantee of success -- I'm sure you'll still run into conflicts > between packages and useflags, but it might be a bit easier. > > When you see conflicting packages that won't install, I suggest > deleting both packages immediately -- let portage sort out the > conflicts. Just keep removing packages until portage finally > stops complaining. > > Beware of pambase, however. I finally took Canek's advice and > removed consolekit from the machine and unset the useflag for > all packages, including pambase and polkit. I'd suggest you > get pambase and polkit re-installed with the proper useflags > before you try to reboot. Dunno if that's mandatory, but I did > it that way and had no problems (yet). > > I've finished updating my virtual gentoo systemd machine now, > but I'm still fighting with the virtual openrc machine and I'm > not sure how it will turn out. More tomorrow :) I haven't upgraded yet to the last update (although I've been using GNOME 3+systemd for years), but I do know this: the primary reason of GNOME's dependency on systemd is logind, and logind *CANNOT* run correctly if systemd is not the running init. So you not only need to install systemd: you need to use it as init. I don't even think logind can start if systemd is not running. And actually, the long term plan is for systemd --user to basically replace gnome-session-manager, so just installing systemd is not going to work at all in the future, even if it *may* seems to work now (which I'm pretty sure it doesn't). systemd provides some pretty complex functionality for logind (and therefore GNOME) while running; it's not just some libraries. Regards. --089e0141a1ce5c1d5f04e2857f14 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Jul 27, 2013 4:44 PM, "walt" <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> First hint: =C2=A0it's a mess -- don't do it on a critical mac= hine.
> (My main machine is ~amd64 and that's why I'm doing it on virt= ual
> ~amd64 machines first.)
>
> The new gnome-shell demands that systemd be installed, even if you
> don't intend to use it.
>
> The latest systemd conflicts with udev because the udev project
> has been rolled into systemd, which now provides all of the files
> previously installed by udev.
>
> Therefore your machine will still boot without udev because systemd > installs all the udev files. You don't need to start or use system= d
> if you don't want to, but the systemd package must be installed > *before* you reboot and after removing udev.
>
> Removal of udev has caused a few (temporary) problems with useflags, > because a few packages still depend directly on udev instead of the > newer (!systemd ? udev) which means accept either one but not both. > That will get fixed soon, I'm sure.
>
> The right way to upgrade gnome is probably to remove every gnome
> package on the machine, which will avoid many of the conflicts I'v= e
> had to fight for the last two days -- but of course I did it the hard<= br> > way instead :)
>
> You can try emerge -au gnome-light early in the update, which is
> simpler than emerging gnome in all its immensity, but that's no > guarantee of success -- I'm sure you'll still run into conflic= ts
> between packages and useflags, but it might be a bit easier.
>
> When you see conflicting packages that won't install, I suggest > deleting both packages immediately -- let portage sort out the
> conflicts. =C2=A0Just keep removing packages until portage finally
> stops complaining.
>
> Beware of pambase, however. =C2=A0I finally took Canek's advice an= d
> removed consolekit from the machine and unset the useflag for
> all packages, including pambase and polkit. =C2=A0I'd suggest you<= br> > get pambase and polkit re-installed with the proper useflags
> before you try to reboot. =C2=A0Dunno if that's mandatory, but I d= id
> it that way and had no problems (yet).
>
> I've finished updating my virtual gentoo systemd machine now,
> but I'm still fighting with the virtual openrc machine and I'm=
> not sure how it will turn out. =C2=A0More tomorrow :)

I haven't upgraded yet to the last update (although I've been us= ing GNOME 3+systemd for years), but I do know this: the primary reason of G= NOME's dependency on systemd is logind, and logind *CANNOT* run correct= ly if systemd is not the running init.

So you not only need to install systemd: you need to use it as init. I d= on't even think logind can start if systemd is not running.

And actually, the long term plan is for systemd --user to basically repl= ace gnome-session-manager, so just installing systemd is not going to work = at all in the future, even if it *may* seems to work now (which I'm pre= tty sure it doesn't).

systemd provides some pretty complex functionality for logind (and there= fore GNOME) while running; it's not just some libraries.

Regards.

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