From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1S95Co-0004R3-FD for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 01:46:46 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5329EE077E; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 01:46:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pb0-f53.google.com (mail-pb0-f53.google.com [209.85.160.53]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30EEDE076D for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 01:45:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbcuo1 with SMTP id uo1so836040pbc.40 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 18:45:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=s29kwraqG8eKLISNuCyz2I6ffHjfrMYcBHAEqyyNDsE=; b=SFAJpPFHTegAhi3W7c4LvIEJtYZ0xYRQH/H0JqMHs64LJJ7056zauywKL89ewS2cCV E9PGpeC+bPvr2SZzMXEKyzdmisxl3WHGKMcHTEnkjh8EZv81XdLuxrnDBaVVVDhUorbY PRfj+Se/c7riWyTBHP7PUaIuAS0f0fyNE8cIxrCOs4k7GWcWfOEdCYQHWDNEUArvVo1q gOGDaWM6G606NQh+9uOHAw0YDRMwpiMCN2dQAIxO6e0tpN4ueH8NwxOJVitBRK1AedSZ BCepqWt85B3FzljHhPR5/fD3qkNuxg7hNhSf/0F9iM351EjH6s6FqM4tPdRkEdSKK0ui p0eQ== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.195.3 with SMTP id ia3mr27636390pbc.20.1332035106384; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 18:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.197.41 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 18:45:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <709768995.843751.1331957483491.JavaMail.open-xchange@email.1and1.com> <20120317115300.GB3615@acm.acm> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 19:45:06 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ] From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw6lz?= To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: 44f456dc-a5de-4d76-bf05-17e4cbf73a21 X-Archives-Hash: cd397204ce370dee3ac1a4760cb09582 On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote= : > On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> >> Hello, Nikos. >> >> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >> >>>> Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon. >> >> >>> No, we don't. =C2=A0I hope systemd arrives soon. =C2=A0It's the best in= it system I >>> ever saw. >> >> >> What's so good about it? =C2=A0What will it do for me? >> >> I have this horrible sneaking suspicion that it will be more complicated >> than /sbin/init + OpenRC, just like udev + initramfs is more complicated >> than udev, and CUPS is more complicated than classical lpr. >> >> Why do you find it so good? > > > No idea. =C2=A0I only posted this because the OP didn't say what's bad ab= out > systemd :-) =C2=A0I really don't know I should care whether my system run= s OpenRC > or systemd. Take this with a grain (or a kilo) of salt, since I'm obviously biased, but IMHO this are systemd advantages over OpenRC: * Really fast boot. OpenRC takes at least double the time that systemd does when booting, easily verifiable. In my laptop systemd is twice as fast as OpenRC; in my desktop is three times faster. * Really parallel service startup: OpenRC has never been reliable on parallel service startup; its documentation says it explicitly. * Really simple service unit files: The service unit files are really small, really simple, really easy to understand/modify. Compare the 9 lines of sshd.service: $ cat /etc/systemd/system/sshd.service [Unit] Description=3DSSH Secure Shell Service After=3Dsyslog.target [Service] ExecStart=3D/usr/sbin/sshd -D [Install] WantedBy=3Dmulti-user.target with the 84 of /etc/init.d/sshd (80 without comments). * Really good documentation: systemd has one of the best documentations I have ever seen in *any* project. Everything (except really new, experimental features) is documented, with manual pages explaining everything. And besides, there are blog posts by Lennart explaining in a more informal way how to do neat tricks with systemd. * Really good in-site customization: The service unit files are trivially overrided with custom ones for specific installations, without needing to touch the ones installed by systemd or a program. With OpenRC, if I modify a /etc/init.d file, chances are I need to check out my next installation so I can see how the new file differs from the old one, and adapt the changes to my customized version. * All the goodies from Control Groups: You can use kernel cgroups to monitor/control several properties of your daemons, out of the box, almost no admin effort involved. * It tries to unify Linux behaviour among distros (some can argue that this is a bad thing): Using systemd, the same configurations/techniques work the same in every distribution. No more need to learn /etc/conf.d, /etc/sysconfig, /etc/default hacks by different distros. * Finally, and what I think is the most fundamental difference between systemd and almost any other init system: The service unit files in systemd are *declarative*; you tell the daemon *what* to do, not *how* to do it. If the service files are shell scripts (like in OpenRC/SysV), everything can spiral out of control really easily. And it usually does (again, look at sshd; and that one is actully nicely written, there are all kind of monsters out there abusing the power that shell gives you). These are the ones off the top of my head; but what I like the most about systemd is that it just works, and that it makes a lot of sense (at least to me). Most of systemd features can be implemented in OpenRC (although the speed difference will never be eliminated if OpenRC keeps using shell files). My question is: why bother? systemd is already here, it already works, and it's actually supported in Gentoo. But again, remember that I'm biased: I keep an overlay to run Gentoo systems with only systemd; no OpenRC, no baselayout, no SysV. You guys can try it if you want: http://xochitl.matem.unam.mx/~canek/gentoo-systemd-only/ Usual disclaimer: I take no responsibility if using my overlay results in your systems asploding. That said, I'm using it on all my machines without a hitch. Regards. --=20 Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingenier=C3=ADa de la Computaci=C3=B3n Universidad Nacional Aut=C3=B3noma de M=C3=A9xico