From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6CD0B1395E2 for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:35:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 57A9EE0B31; Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:35:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qk0-f181.google.com (mail-qk0-f181.google.com [209.85.220.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09A31E0AA8 for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:35:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qk0-f181.google.com with SMTP id n21so308674840qka.3 for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:35:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=nht/zhwNVmR/7o337lZOokuVFIH/z2eghMbgkSy3568=; b=ayg6tea9RgAfKj1KThDy+MOYl1KNEitAXQt7sooMFaCr0E329cpwLDYoT20Pf0Ml+z LfV5ygDrowArQzKQ0FEiV4jPc9Qkd3SMUtD9550/neqQAlndgXIlfN83/3h90u27EgcS QTbeyY70FGHj5ak11dPa8dxBFSS85pDvGhJo98uG42ttLoNla2cagChL8UglcFKoJaju QA6XsAIooJPgy7tOU52EV8eglHb+1uZd6GLnoFcalEI9NGTtnFEEQEdc1LODzveP/eDC /YycvwRDsWAaTtN7lMgukeFkOR9SB1sgml+9XlsC4lVPeFeJN0papJjG95Is0ti+0wCl YhQw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=nht/zhwNVmR/7o337lZOokuVFIH/z2eghMbgkSy3568=; b=I+qmyz2+gtLPT064vG71R11tDNec8TqAkrLsiyCWMx3JNDa05DJqbB/cU3utVil1kN UOALC/nrt2ARaQx37sFRwjD3Xb7PFD5V63p9JG6Q+gFYMVVKuh/4Os4EM10SikCWuYob E8cikKlLzWxWes6d6Ye0coAnYH14uinqRyx2KDGDzhA46qUbnA1XNNe5de+UP6lkYe4w WPnDapmF1Mab/27yrHbgrqSCACugXvVmgA5rh8+24vy1Usx59F/1zwLUzNFT2EOsCEGf pfQ75AlXw5Cc+B0k0bpx2fWulPjquWhlB6PHFnjICPdEpssqjffUpa6PYlbW/yopHeBN QXHA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC03H46POtp2SSTTqovn7WwZjnENskM2xs03ER3rMMsBIqny1CyJRdUcoYH2sXMXKVAm19nF8i7eFHuHreA== X-Received: by 10.55.186.70 with SMTP id k67mr8992727qkf.265.1479594915924; Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:35:15 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.55.69.78 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:34:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20161119211734.12746.24E6124D@matica.foolinux.mooo.com> References: <20161116124726.GA8424@g0n.xdwgrp> <20161117074400.7908.242EA9B5@matica.foolinux.mooo.com> <20161119102149.0c62c7ad@jupiter.sol.kaishome.de> <20161119190405.8295.2CF92EED@matica.foolinux.mooo.com> <20161119204409.11828.251A07F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com> <20161119211734.12746.24E6124D@matica.foolinux.mooo.com> From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw6lz?= Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2016 16:34:55 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: sans-dbus was: gnome intrusion? To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c0438946012cd0541af091c X-Archives-Salt: 35ba46e4-4b1c-4d43-897f-a57e3e0d6844 X-Archives-Hash: b78dc98e027570c75614f70f020a29ec --94eb2c0438946012cd0541af091c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:23 PM, Ian Zimmerman wrote: [ ... ] > Why > should I have to learn all that huge amount of information, crowding out > things I actually _like_ to know from my declining memory, to keep contro= l > of my computing? Because you didn't wrote the code. Someone else did, and you are using it free (as in beer and as in freedom). Therefore, you don't get a say on what dependencies the code should or shouldn't rely on. You don't like a dependency? Use other software that doesn't use it; be warned that it will almost for sure be less capable that the one that uses dbus. You don't want to stop using the software, but you don't want the dependency? Then write patches for the software that allow the dependency to be dropped; be warned that said patches will most probably be rejected, since the maintainers have to think in the *generality* of its users, not in your particular case, and therefore the dependency (dbus in this case) makes perfect sense and make their lifes *sooooo* much easier. You still insist on not using the dependency? Then fork the code and maintain it yourself. You will quickly see why the maintainers decided to use dbus. The real solution is, as Alan said, understanding the reason of the dependency and reaching the completely logical conclusion that the maintainers were 100% right on deciding to depend on dbus, because it's the bee's knees. You are right: it's your computer and you have the right to decide what does it runs and what it doesn't (that's why you run a Free Software BIOS and no proprietary firmware at all, right?) But you don't get to complain about the choices that other software's authors take about dependencies and requirements for said software: if you don't like it, stop using it or contribute to changing it (with the very real possibility that your contributions will be rejected). You don't *have to* learn a huge amount of information about dbus; but it will help you to understand why so many in this thread see the dbus dependency as perfectly reasonable. Or don't learn nothing about dbus, but then stop complaining about why some software uses it, and be happy to enjoy its many many advantages. And the fact that is Free Software, and you can study and learn from the code if you so desire at some point in the future. Regards. -- Dr. Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s Profesor de Carrera Asociado C Departamento de Matem=C3=A1ticas Facultad de Ciencias Universidad Nacional Aut=C3=B3noma de M=C3=A9xico --94eb2c0438946012cd0541af091c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:23 PM, Ian Zimmerman <itz@primate.net> wrote:
[ ... ]
> Why
> should I have to learn all that huge amount of informat= ion, crowding out
> things I actually _like_ to know from my declinin= g memory, to keep control
> of my computing?

Because you didn&= #39;t wrote the code. Someone else did, and you are using it free (as in be= er and as in freedom). Therefore, you don't get a say on what dependenc= ies the code should or shouldn't rely on.

You = don't like a dependency? Use other software that doesn't use it; be= warned that it will almost for sure be less capable that the one that uses= dbus.

You don't want to stop using the softwa= re, but you don't want the dependency? Then write patches for the softw= are that allow the dependency to be dropped; be warned that said patches wi= ll most probably be rejected, since the maintainers have to think in the *g= enerality* of its users, not in your particular case, and therefore the dep= endency (dbus in this case) makes perfect sense and make their lifes *soooo= o* much easier.

You still insist on not using the = dependency? Then fork the code and maintain it yourself. You will quickly s= ee why the maintainers decided to use dbus.

The real solution is, as= Alan said, understanding the reason of the dependency and reaching the com= pletely logical conclusion that the maintainers were 100% right on deciding= to depend on dbus, because it's the bee's knees.

You are ri= ght: it's your computer and you have the right to decide what does it r= uns and what it doesn't (that's why you run a Free Software BIOS an= d no proprietary firmware at all, right?) But you don't get to complain= about the choices that other software's authors take about dependencie= s and requirements for said software: if you don't like it, stop using = it or contribute to changing it (with the very real possibility that your c= ontributions will be rejected).

You don't *have to* learn a huge= amount of information about dbus; but it will help you to understand why s= o many in this thread see the dbus dependency as perfectly reasonable.

Or don't learn nothing about dbus, but then stop c= omplaining about why some software uses it, and be happy to enjoy its many = many advantages. And the fact that is Free Software, and you can study and = learn from the code if you so desire at some point in the future.

Re= gards.
--
Dr. Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s
Profesor de Carrera As= ociado C
Departamento de Matem=C3=A1ticas
Facultad de Ciencias
Uni= versidad Nacional Aut=C3=B3noma de M=C3=A9xico
--94eb2c0438946012cd0541af091c--