From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1RBABr-0003hw-Di for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:58:07 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AC9CC21C18E; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 18:57:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ww0-f41.google.com (mail-ww0-f41.google.com [74.125.82.41]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690C521C055 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 18:56:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wwf10 with SMTP id 10so5221027wwf.4 for ; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 11:56:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=U4Q6Da0eWcI5YgzcjaveN56ZLMq55ILbostxTHn9GWc=; b=EAHVqJ8u2haVkfdrU9NfoZN1fnP75GpOEsrJDQRCdMDWVmKafUaB+9y2YWl9/lnlMh 63gBzq2ElJoMENcgRMYD96Xsi+OPB/huiSkD5YRPIBum3RS96WegrY1LiPAK4PtokeI8 dqwatveIuzREfSWiDH0g3TsRGJVuBDlEV+mBs= Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.133.219 with SMTP id q69mr1791771wei.79.1317754614488; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 11:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.132.80 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 11:56:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4E8AD6C4.7070901@gmail.com> <20111004110746.395635e0@zaphod.digimed.co.uk> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 11:56:54 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is grub2 stable and who uses it? From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw6lz?= To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: X-Archives-Hash: b63332955958710754cf55e44570b0f5 On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2011-10-04, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote: >> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: >>> On 2011-10-04, Neil Bothwick wrote: >>>> On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 04:49:56 -0500, Dale wrote: >>>> >>>>> Subject line says it pretty well. ??Is grub2 stable, who uses it and = can >>>>> you post your experience on the switching process? ??Was it difficult= ? >>>> >>>> I use it on my netbook, which I admittedly don't boot more than a coup= le >>>> of times a month. It's stable, I can't comment on the switching proces= s >>>> as I used GRUB2 from the start with this machine, it seemed a good tim= e >>>> to get to grips with it. >>>> >>>> GRUB2 is neither complicated nor difficult, but it is different. >>> >>> I've only used it on Ubuntu, and maybe it's just Ubuntu's >>> implementation -- but it was both complicated and difficult. ??There >>> are 10X as many files, and to change anything you edit a whole set of >>> configuration files and run a utility that generates _another_ set of >>> configuration files. >>> >>> Compared to "vi /boot/grub/menu.lst; reboot", that's complicated. >>> >>>> If you try to think in terms of legacy GRUB, you will have more >>>> problems than if you approach is as learning a new system. >>> >>> At first glace, grub2 looks like a minature Unix installation whose >>> purpose is to boot a bigger Unix installation. ??It's got it's own init >>> system and it's own set of init scripts. >> >> That it's not true. It connects to whatever init system do you have >> (OpenRC, SysV, systemd, Upstart), > > I'm curious: what if you don't have one? =C2=A0I use grub-legacy to boot > stuff other than Unix. When I said "it connects", I mean "calls". The same way it calls whatever thingy Window uses. >> and it has scripts to *generate* the config file. >> >> The thing is that GRUB2 needs to understand several filesystems to >> grab the kernel image from. > > I understand why GRUB2 is complicated. =C2=A0It's the statement that it's > not complicated that I was disagreeing with. > >> It also wants to be able to use a more interesting resolution than >> 640x480. > > That I don't understand. It's a bootloader. =C2=A0It needs to allow you t= o > pick one of a handfull of choices and boot that choice. I agree. That's why GRUB2 now is really 1.99, because it's not finished. >> This means that it has to reimplement all the code for any >> filesystem, > > That part I understand. > >> and all the code for video handling. > > I don't really understand the need for that, but I'm somebody who > still regularly uses a serial console. =C2=A0[Insert the usual "I remembe= r > when" grumbling here.] Then stick with LILO or grub-legacy and root=3DUUID in your kernel command = line. > [...] > >> However, in the last LPC, it was suggested that replicating filesystem >> and video code on the kernel and grub was a terrible idea, and some >> developers have suggested to use a /firstboot partition with a simple >> filesystem, and populated with a kernel image and an initramfs. That >> will mean that to boot Linux, we would use Linux. > > Yea, I've read about that. =C2=A0The mind wobbles. =C2=A0I suppose it's n= o worse > than VAXes having a PDP-11 inside to help it start up. =C2=A0[I'm not > really sure that's true, but I heard it from several people who should > have known.] I actually think is a good idea. I also think is not for everybody. As I said, if the root=3DUUID kernel command line works, then nobody has nothing to worry about anything: we would be able to use whatever boot loader we want to, even LILO (if it still works). Me, I want my laptop/desktop computers to have the best resolution available from moment zero, even before loading the kernel, and not a single flicker in my screen until my GNOME 3 is fully loaded. So I'm gonna play with grub2 (or /firstboot, if it materializes) until it's able to do that. Regards. --=20 Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingenier=C3=ADa de la Computaci=C3=B3n Universidad Nacional Aut=C3=B3noma de M=C3=A9xico