Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is grub2 stable and who uses it?

["Canek Peláez Valdés" <caneko@gmail.com>]

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Grant Edwards
<grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2011-10-04, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2011-10-04, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 04:49:56 -0500, Dale wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Subject line says it pretty well. ??Is grub2 stable, who uses it and can
>>>>> you post your experience on the switching process? ??Was it difficult?
>>>>
>>>> I use it on my netbook, which I admittedly don't boot more than a couple
>>>> of times a month. It's stable, I can't comment on the switching process
>>>> as I used GRUB2 from the start with this machine, it seemed a good time
>>>> to get to grips with it.
>>>>
>>>> GRUB2 is neither complicated nor difficult, but it is different.
>>>
>>> I've only used it on Ubuntu, and maybe it's just Ubuntu's
>>> implementation -- but it was both complicated and difficult. ??There
>>> are 10X as many files, and to change anything you edit a whole set of
>>> configuration files and run a utility that generates _another_ set of
>>> configuration files.
>>>
>>> Compared to "vi /boot/grub/menu.lst; reboot", that's complicated.
>>>
>>>> If you try to think in terms of legacy GRUB, you will have more
>>>> problems than if you approach is as learning a new system.
>>>
>>> At first glace, grub2 looks like a minature Unix installation whose
>>> purpose is to boot a bigger Unix installation. ??It's got it's own init
>>> system and it's own set of init scripts.
>>
>> That it's not true. It connects to whatever init system do you have
>> (OpenRC, SysV, systemd, Upstart),
>
> I'm curious: what if you don't have one?  I use grub-legacy to boot
> stuff other than Unix.

When I said "it connects", I mean "calls". The same way it calls
whatever thingy Window uses.

>> and it has scripts to *generate* the config file.
>>
>> The thing is that GRUB2 needs to understand several filesystems to
>> grab the kernel image from.
>
> I understand why GRUB2 is complicated.  It's the statement that it's
> not complicated that I was disagreeing with.
>
>> It also wants to be able to use a more interesting resolution than
>> 640x480.
>
> That I don't understand. It's a bootloader.  It needs to allow you to
> pick one of a handfull of choices and boot that choice.

I agree. That's why GRUB2 now is really 1.99, because it's not finished.

>> This means that it has to reimplement all the code for any
>> filesystem,
>
> That part I understand.
>
>> and all the code for video handling.
>
> I don't really understand the need for that, but I'm somebody who
> still regularly uses a serial console.  [Insert the usual "I remember
> when" grumbling here.]

Then stick with LILO or grub-legacy and root=UUID in your kernel command line.

> [...]
>
>> However, in the last LPC, it was suggested that replicating filesystem
>> and video code on the kernel and grub was a terrible idea, and some
>> developers have suggested to use a /firstboot partition with a simple
>> filesystem, and populated with a kernel image and an initramfs. That
>> will mean that to boot Linux, we would use Linux.
>
> Yea, I've read about that.  The mind wobbles.  I suppose it's no worse
> than VAXes having a PDP-11 inside to help it start up.  [I'm not
> really sure that's true, but I heard it from several people who should
> have known.]

I actually think is a good idea. I also think is not for everybody. As
I said, if the root=UUID kernel command line works, then nobody has
nothing to worry about anything: we would be able to use whatever boot
loader we want to, even LILO (if it still works).

Me, I want my laptop/desktop computers to have the best resolution
available from moment zero, even before loading the kernel, and not a
single flicker in my screen until my GNOME 3 is fully loaded. So I'm
gonna play with grub2 (or /firstboot, if it materializes) until it's
able to do that.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México