From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4104139083 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 05:31:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 93589E101A; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 05:31:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qt0-x242.google.com (mail-qt0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A019E0FDE for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 05:31:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qt0-x242.google.com with SMTP id m59so35655152qte.11 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 21:31:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=G/t9AOqXJXs5P+gbD2y/KNHWq4OrMgiqZyGI1QAs2LY=; b=bxcC+v0aG5IlFMDO9t1B+dKpw8pRPYDJtrTiUzGyRtECImOG6Wbv6OQu7EG0sLd+T3 Y2TSJG9tDRmzGiAzvjHtS1x5ov7hSbkE++basb+lAD2N9zUBokmfoaEDTJISXZS1YNSp JWMb/DEEoBeS21JGsAJANsxGT7ERmqlY+UmgkobokHd+37GymYVS8uyLW76mmMTGE6Z+ e4Tzb6pmCp72Inp/7SMC6e5GpPbdoHOoeFv59Fm3+iE+DXHVW11/DAAEN3cI9rMK9eZ3 JxCzSHU6gD2cZ+ibB/6vZnzGIiE8ijSHrIVveUrfGSlolCrDzg5XJRVHgy0NeN5hOtUP Kw+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=G/t9AOqXJXs5P+gbD2y/KNHWq4OrMgiqZyGI1QAs2LY=; b=nEdKk1yg/zXr0tYbscAdp48GKeEF8oKTnB1MSpEQTmo53Gg1bYspi/TulX/qkkRXuz Vd0lJkFCuG3q4CIvdWdcZUL4uysbJt/DWl7QK1kJUhDOmSVODWcsqdb6VVAEaBBsBlGi c1eKL3zUM1L2bYbF0i7oOHayKauw6doGbrR8Qbq2PpTclQInETgNAYzAkKY4xUpaGb0s 7pLCP0e25WI9vRQm8LABPtC0+z+jZSgyzVEn+TxLcihLqnHOaLIMuX//E6RN1SYj3tvG 1Iu8bJ9JpKuT+42nLyE5gg77jcmjScgxpoSnDJqJgaxU8QjnxIiGCM+XRePhasYGFl9v c8wg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJRcYuaCffcnGhIRd0pCfUET4vOKaK0949WdsdEjcU78uqbvoQv w1YugFgELJTrzw1th4QGzfxgNPrTZAX20uUAbSs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMat382G6XjOlWNt/KgjhofOhJMeXIFDPIuObnr+4dbZravH8B4PWcGJKgO/9tOgXrbHGwBPYU1xXxj1G4+13pE= X-Received: by 10.37.64.4 with SMTP id n4mr10729914yba.445.1512970291778; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 21:31:31 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.13.224.71 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 21:31:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <6582741.F9gJHCEsXr@dell_xps> <2343494.DDJaQvByiF@dell_xps> <20171210210139.rm63ja4rdyrb2ewo@matica.foolinux.mooo.com> From: R0b0t1 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 23:31:30 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is gnome becoming obligatory? To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: c375aa24-188e-40a2-badb-32ea93fe469d X-Archives-Hash: dfce9923857fce709f94bc97dc1da32c Against my better judgement, On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 9:31 PM, Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote: > Up to a point, the same can be said about systemd; although many of its > programs can be and are used by end users, most of it is for distro > builders, programmers and administrators. And having a couple of Gentoo > boxes running Apache doesn't make anyone an administrator, BTW. > I have met Gentoo users who maintain, for fun, far more complex and capable systems than some system administrators who are paid for their work. There is no reason you are any more credible than a random mailing list user. > That's why most of Gentoo systemd users (and we are *a lot*; Gentoo has > great systemd support with several Gentoo devs collaborating with the > project) usually just ignore this kind of threads. Most of the time is a = lot > of people which don't use it badmouthing a really cool piece of technolog= y > that has been adopted by all large (and heavily used) Linux distributions > because the people that understand its technical merits realize that, for > the *general case*, its benefits outweigh whatever costs (in many cases > imaginary) it may have. And besides, for us it just works=E2=84=A2, quiet= ly running > in the background. > If you are saying this then you are choosing to ignore the technical arguments against systemd. You can claim you don't care and that is fine, but you've ignored what people are talking about and have injected your opinion into the discussion with a false air of superiority. The complaints in this thread may be a little extreme, but ultimately I agree these closely connected binary systems are not easily maintainable and are opaque to users. Cheers, R0b0t1