From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ri4e5-0006Dm-8v for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2012 13:43:17 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C36421C02C; Tue, 3 Jan 2012 13:43:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from svr-us4.tirtonadi.com (svr-us4.tirtonadi.com [69.65.43.212]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD6921C10F for ; Tue, 3 Jan 2012 13:42:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-f181.google.com ([209.85.212.181]) by svr-us4.tirtonadi.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ri4cu-000qTV-BY for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Tue, 03 Jan 2012 20:42:04 +0700 Received: by wibhq2 with SMTP id hq2so10680086wib.40 for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2012 05:42:01 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.93.193 with SMTP id cw1mr79839770wib.5.1325598121158; Tue, 03 Jan 2012 05:42:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.78.208 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Jan 2012 05:42:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20120103131346.GC2410@nicolas-desktop> References: <20111115062115.GA3262@waltdnes.org> <20111121104724.GC7461@waltdnes.org> <20111201194544.GD4455@waltdnes.org> <20120103100445.GD1961@waltdnes.org> <20120103123209.GB2410@nicolas-desktop> <20120103131346.GC2410@nicolas-desktop> Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 20:42:01 +0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 3 From: Pandu Poluan To: Nicolas Sebrecht Cc: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - svr-us4.tirtonadi.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.gentoo.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - poluan.info X-Archives-Salt: a6fbef58-4614-4484-82a8-7b3dc02b4780 X-Archives-Hash: b8e7b2c56c3e995922277a16290a88e4 On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 20:13, Nicolas Sebrecht wrote: > The 03/01/12, Pandu Poluan wrote: > >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0But I can see a use case for mdev completely replacing udev= : servers and >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0virtual machines. >> >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0Servers, especially production ones, have a hardware change= only once in >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0every two blue moons. They don't need all the bells and whi= stles of udev. >> >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0Even more so when you've gone the virtualized route. >> >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0Since servers are arguably where Linux shines the most, mde= v should be >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0seriously considered as a udev replacement. > > But servers have enough ressources to run udev and any required > initramfs to mount /usr. > No, no, no, you got it the wrong way around. It's not udev *per se* that I -- as a server admin -- want to get rid of. It's the initramfs. And I also want to put /usr in a separate partition. The problem is that, judging from where udev is going in upstream, we will be forced to use initramfs, or put /usr in / By migrating from udev to mdev, I am no longer forced to do either. > So, the question is where engineering should go: > > - mdev and manually manage /dev devices if nedded > > or > > - rely on initramfs to mount /usr. > As a SysAdmin, I'd prever the 1st one, thank you. Adding hardware to server is a MAJOR event, something worthy of sacrificing some goats and lambs to appease the Information Gods and Goddesses. And after the new shiny thing gets installed physically, it will be followed up -- with 109% certainty -- with some configuration in the OS. > As initramfs is a prooven working solution, all distributions I know use > it either by default or if needed. > Then again, using initramfs is yet-another-component waiting to break. Knowing Murphy's Law, it will one day fuck up everything. > Also, I think the coming problem you will be face with in the mdev way > is the move of binaries from /bin to /usr/bin and so. > Again, on a server, this will be a one-time affair. I can always bind-mount the /usr of / under /mnt, letting the "/usr" get overlaid by the /usr partition. If there's a piece of hardware that needs a piece of binary inside /usr, I'll just cp that binary into /mnt/usr/whatever to appease that piece of hardware. Rgds, --=20 FdS Pandu E Poluan ~ IT Optimizer ~ =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 LOPSA Member #15248 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Blog : http://pepoluan.tumblr.com =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Linked-In : http://id.linkedin.com/in/pepoluan