From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CCD91381F3 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 03:46:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F368C21C0A2; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 03:45:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from svr-us4.tirtonadi.com (svr-us4.tirtonadi.com [69.65.43.212]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A47421C07F for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 03:44:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-da0-f53.google.com ([209.85.210.53]:34156) by svr-us4.tirtonadi.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TYTuE-000WgQ-WE for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:44:51 +0700 Received: by mail-da0-f53.google.com with SMTP id g9so3423965dad.40 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:44:49 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.193.167 with SMTP id hp7mr22554748pbc.124.1352864689065; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:44:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.233.136 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:44:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.233.136 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:44:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20121114025754.GA7408@waltdnes.org> References: <50A1B335.2080907@gentoo.org> <50A1BC8A.2060607@gmail.com> <20121114025754.GA7408@waltdnes.org> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:44:48 +0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: [gentoo-project] With regard to udev stabilization From: Pandu Poluan To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b15aebf388fdf04ce6c5b66 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - svr-us4.tirtonadi.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.gentoo.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - poluan.info X-Archives-Salt: f49465d8-d4f7-4f00-8f74-675be2daf5a4 X-Archives-Hash: da735fdad9430427bc4d8a3a69a8e18c --047d7b15aebf388fdf04ce6c5b66 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Nov 14, 2012 10:02 AM, "Walter Dnes" wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 09:20:42PM -0600, Dale wrote > > > > Well, it appears we have someone willing to fork udev. Yeppie !! Me, > > I'm looking forward to seeing how this works and giving it a test run > > when it gets ready. Since it is a fork, shouldn't be to long, I hope. > > Might even get me to come back to udev. I wonder which group will be > setting the specs as far as "the official udev" is concerned. The > Gentoo devs should seek support from other distros and Linus himself. > If we merely make a fork, and the systemd people still have the > "official version", we'll be doomed to slavishly follow them in "bug > compatability" mode. What happens if/when Lennart gets his way? > http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-August/006066.html > > > And what we will certainly not do is compromise the uniform integration > > into systemd for some cosmetic improvements for non-systemd systems. > > > > (Yes, udev on non-systemd systems is in our eyes a dead end, in case > > you haven't noticed it yet. I am looking forward to the day when we > > can drop that support entirely.) > > And that's probably not the only thing that the systemd people could > do to jerk us around. A successful fork would need to be one that > hardware companies release drivers for, and that GNOME/KDE will support. > > I still think that the fork team should look at where mdev doesn't > match udev, and write shims to add the missing functionality. The > busybox people obviously don't want to bloat their minimal version. But > it already does most of what is needed, so some shims to add missing > functionality there would be less effort than an entire udev fork. > > > I wonder what they will name it tho. > > Howsabout calling it "Woodstock"? We could even have our own cheer > > Gimmee an EFF > > EFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF > > Gimmee an OOO > > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO > > Gimmee an ARR > > ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR > > Gimmee a KAY > > KAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY > > What's that spell? > > FORK! > > What's that spell? > > FORK! > > What's that spell? > > FORK! > > Now all we need is a quarter of a million people screaming in unison. > LOL Now seriously: You should follow the discussion in -project. Someone (I forgot who exactly) has made a personal commitment to within a month produce a serviceable udev fork, at least a Proof of Concept. And IIRC, hwoarang is going to 'test the waters' with Debian people. So, this is not a pipe dream. It's happening, code will be produced, ... and I bet some people will get offended ;-) Rgds, -- --047d7b15aebf388fdf04ce6c5b66 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Nov 14, 2012 10:02 AM, "Walter Dnes" <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 09:20:42PM -0600, Dale wrote
> >
> > Well, it appears we have someone willing to fork udev. =C2=A0Yepp= ie !! =C2=A0Me,
> > I'm looking forward to seeing how this works and giving it a = test run
> > when it gets ready. =C2=A0Since it is a fork, shouldn't be to= long, I hope.
>
> =C2=A0 Might even get me to come back to udev. =C2=A0I wonder which gr= oup will be
> setting the specs as far as "the official udev" is concerned= . =C2=A0The
> Gentoo devs should seek support from other distros and Linus himself.<= br> > If we merely make a fork, and the systemd people still have the
> "official version", we'll be doomed to slavishly follow = them in "bug
> compatability" mode. =C2=A0What happens if/when Lennart gets his = way?
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-= August/006066.html
>
> > And what we will certainly not do is compromise the uniform integ= ration
> > into systemd for some cosmetic improvements for non-systemd syste= ms.
> >
> > (Yes, udev on non-systemd systems is in our eyes a dead end, in c= ase
> > you haven't noticed it yet. I am looking forward to the day w= hen we
> > can drop that support entirely.)
>
> =C2=A0 And that's probably not the only thing that the systemd peo= ple could
> do to jerk us around. =C2=A0A successful fork would need to be one tha= t
> hardware companies release drivers for, and that GNOME/KDE will suppor= t.
>
> =C2=A0 I still think that the fork team should look at where mdev does= n't
> match udev, and write shims to add the missing functionality. =C2=A0Th= e
> busybox people obviously don't want to bloat their minimal version= . =C2=A0But
> it already does most of what is needed, so some shims to add missing > functionality there would be less effort than an entire udev fork.
>
> > I wonder what they will name it tho.
>
> =C2=A0 Howsabout calling it "Woodstock"? =C2=A0We could even= have our own cheer
>
> Gimmee an EFF
>
> EFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
>
> Gimmee an OOO
>
> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>
> Gimmee an ARR
>
> ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
>
> Gimmee a =C2=A0KAY
>
> KAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>
> What's that spell?
>
> FORK!
>
> What's that spell?
>
> FORK!
>
> What's that spell?
>
> FORK!
>
> =C2=A0 Now all we need is a quarter of a million people screaming in u= nison.
>

LOL

Now seriously:

You should follow the discussion in -project. Someone (I forgot who exac= tly) has made a personal commitment to within a month produce a serviceable= udev fork, at least a Proof of Concept. And IIRC, hwoarang is going to = 9;test the waters' with Debian people.

So, this is not a pipe dream. It's happening, code will be produced,= ... and I bet some people will get offended ;-)

Rgds,
--

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