From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1S9EEC-0006hS-LX for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:24:48 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D058EE0914; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:24:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from svr-us4.tirtonadi.com (svr-us4.tirtonadi.com [69.65.43.212]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B38DE0BB8 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 11:23:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vx0-f181.google.com ([209.85.220.181]) by svr-us4.tirtonadi.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1S9ECy-001JcS-HA for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 18:23:32 +0700 Received: by vcge1 with SMTP id e1so6682691vcg.40 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 04:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.88.103 with SMTP id bf7mr3840155vdb.72.1332069807575; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 04:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.58.200 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 04:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.58.200 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Mar 2012 04:23:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <709768995.843751.1331957483491.JavaMail.open-xchange@email.1and1.com> <20120317115300.GB3615@acm.acm> <87obrugwvn.fsf@newton.gmurray.org.uk> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 18:23:27 +0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ] From: Pandu Poluan To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307f3c04b2539504bb82abcb X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - svr-us4.tirtonadi.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.gentoo.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - poluan.info X-Archives-Salt: 34809c5e-7694-42c1-856f-0defb9a2272c X-Archives-Hash: f4a5851f5cf58b47c456ca392e099fa4 --20cf307f3c04b2539504bb82abcb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mar 18, 2012 3:52 PM, "Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s" = wrote: > > If the config file doesn't exists, the service will not start, and you > can check the reason why with > > systemctl status sshd.service > > And of course you can set another mini sevice unit file to create the > hostkeys. But I repeat: I think those tasks belong into the package > manager, no the init script. > Between installation by package manager and actual execution by the init system, things might happen on the required file(s). Gentoo's initscript guards against this possibility *plus* providing helpful error messages in /var/rc.log Or, said configuration files might be corrupted; the OpenRC initscript -- if written defensively -- will be able to detect that and (perhaps) fallback to something sane. systemd can't do that, short of putting all required intelligence into a script which it executes on boot. Now, if one has to put all the intelligence into a script file which gets executed by systemd, that results in a system that's more complex than plain OpenRC. Not only would one need to maintain the starting script, but one must also maintain systemd + dbus. So, the *only* benefit I can see about systemd is the smarter parallel startup of services. And believe me if I say that server guys (the ones handling tens or even hundreds of servers) would much prefer sequential startup of services than parallel ones. The former is deterministic, the latter is not. Rgds, --20cf307f3c04b2539504bb82abcb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mar 18, 2012 3:52 PM, "Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s" <caneko@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If the config file doesn't exists, the service will not start, and= you
> can check the reason why with
>
> systemctl status sshd.service
>
> And of course you can set another mini sevice unit file to create the<= br> > hostkeys. But I repeat: I think those tasks belong into the package > manager, no the init script.
>

Between installation by package manager and actual execution by the init= system, things might happen on the required file(s). Gentoo's initscri= pt guards against this possibility *plus* providing helpful error messages = in /var/rc.log

Or, said configuration files might be corrupted; the OpenRC initscript -= - if written defensively -- will be able to detect that and (perhaps) fallb= ack to something sane. systemd can't do that, short of putting all requ= ired intelligence into a script which it executes on boot.

Now, if one has to put all the intelligence into a script file which get= s executed by systemd, that results in a system that's more complex tha= n plain OpenRC. Not only would one need to maintain the starting script, bu= t one must also maintain systemd + dbus.

So, the *only* benefit I can see about systemd is the smarter parallel s= tartup of services. And believe me if I say that server guys (the ones hand= ling tens or even hundreds of servers) would much prefer sequential startup= of services than parallel ones. The former is deterministic, the latter is= not.

Rgds,

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