From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1F311381F3 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 06:11:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B6413E0C2E; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 06:10:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from svr-us4.tirtonadi.com (svr-us4.tirtonadi.com [69.65.43.212]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F32BE0B5F for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 06:10:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ve0-f176.google.com ([209.85.128.176]:38836) by svr-us4.tirtonadi.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VDq0u-003tXg-JC for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 13:10:57 +0700 Received: by mail-ve0-f176.google.com with SMTP id b10so1783055vea.7 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 23:10:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=Y0VBufXHrwly9PbgcjVf8READUd1W1h2gk68SciK5q4=; b=nrkpUPZsj2x3Tt39HBeyHmxj9WinjDFGoN7MemTtoObs8+x6fhtuQFyb53OvjB2PAD Sk8rrKe5KdqdL9d3Krl9eh++VCN6xBgGfMvpWgZp/4zeh+AOOxyrsAEP0jQYZ6O4/Qb4 I/8c+8zNt6SZCopXnzHVG2JQgnUakMr7PV8agwoEAZwoUz5Yi2dxXpFUyj+4KxswKsFb kxEibgevx9HpcdvaUPLKXqRwkgp+N++zuCVUEspiWf7WEbeZclLaO4NzOqg3AYsbEweP ivar88R65YR51WM0HTVDs9njQBdWFTImTMqH5hms4VH68lTsLUQ2N0yloHhHX9aDcgvf ZMyw== Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.117.68 with SMTP id kc4mr9684919vdb.0.1377497454913; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 23:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.163.69 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 23:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.163.69 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 23:10:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <521A7EE9.8000706@gmail.com> References: <520A5446.1050001@mail.ru> <520DA782.4050803@sporkbox.us> <520F6333.70301@dmj.nu> <9716EEEB-144F-47AA-A828-FC9A508CE9FA@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> <521090F5.4090305@gmail.com> <521122CB.4010003@libertytrek.org> <521A7EE9.8000706@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 13:10:54 +0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Optional /usr merge in Gentoo From: Pandu Poluan To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec54866727ab1d404e4d39ea0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - svr-us4.tirtonadi.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.gentoo.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - poluan.info X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: svr-us4.tirtonadi.com: authenticated_id: rileyer+pandu.poluan.info/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Archives-Salt: d8c414ba-5e9c-4cfa-aea1-f5777b351f33 X-Archives-Hash: 5e99f6629aa0466aac33ea97ec07b59c --bcaec54866727ab1d404e4d39ea0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Aug 26, 2013 5:06 AM, "Alan McKinnon" wrote: > > On 18/08/2013 21:38, Tanstaafl wrote: > > On 2013-08-18 5:16 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > >> While we're on the topic, what's the obsession with having different > >> bits of the file hierarchy as different*mount points*? That harks back > >> to the days when the only way to have a chunk of fs space be different > >> was to have it as a separate physical thing and mount it. Nowadays we > >> have something better - ZFS. To me this makes so much more sense. I have > >> a large amount of storage called a pool, and set size limits and > >> characteristics for various directories without having to deal with > >> fixed size volumes. > > > > Eh? *Who* has ZFS? Certainly not the linux kernel. > > > > FreeBSD > > You can get ZFS on Linux with relative ease, you just have to build it > yourself. Distros feel they can't redistribute that code. > > > > The bit you quoted shouldn't be read to mean that we have ZFS, it works > on Linux and everyone should activate it and use it and chuck ext* out > the window. > > I meant that we've been chugging along since 1982 or so with ancient > disk concepts that come mostly from MS_DOS and limited by that hardware > of that day. > > And here we are in 2013 *still* fiddling with partition tables, fixed > file systems, fixed mountpoints and we still bang our heads weekly > because sda3 has proven to be too small, and it's a *huge* mission to > change it. Yes, LVM has made this sooooo much easier (kudos to Sistina > for that) but I believe the entire approach is wrong. > > The ZFS approach is better - here's the storage, now do with it what I > want but don't employ arbitrary fixed limits and structures to do it. > +1 on ZFS. It's honestly a truly *modern* filesystem. Been using it as the storage back-end of my company's email server. The zpool and zfs command may need some time to be familiar with, but the self-mounting self-sharing ability of zfs (i.e., no need to muck with fstab and exports files) is really sweet. I really leveraged its ability to do what I call "delta snapshot shipping" (i.e., send only the differences between two snapshots to another place). It's almost like an asynchronous DRBD, but with the added peace of mind that if the files become corrupted (due to buggy app, almost no way for ZFS to let corrupt data exist), I can easily 'roll back' to the time where the files are still uncorrupted. Rgds, -- --bcaec54866727ab1d404e4d39ea0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Aug 26, 2013 5:06 AM, "Alan McKinnon" <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 18/08/2013 21:38, Tanstaafl wrote:
> > On 2013-08-18 5:16 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> While we're on the topic, what's the obsession with h= aving different
> >> bits of the file hierarchy as different*mount points*? That h= arks back
> >> to the days when the only way to have a chunk of fs space be = different
> >> was to have it as a separate physical thing and mount it. Now= adays we
> >> have something better - ZFS. To me this makes so much more se= nse. I have
> >> a large amount of storage called a pool, and set size limits = and
> >> characteristics for various directories without having to dea= l with
> >> fixed size volumes.
> >
> > Eh? *Who* has ZFS? Certainly not the linux kernel.
> >
>
> FreeBSD
>
> You can get ZFS on Linux with relative ease, you just have to build it=
> yourself. Distros feel they can't redistribute that code.
>
>
>
> The bit you quoted shouldn't be read to mean that we have ZFS, it = works
> on Linux and everyone should activate it and use it and chuck ext* out=
> the window.
>
> I meant that we've been chugging along since 1982 or so with ancie= nt
> disk concepts that come mostly from MS_DOS and limited by that hardwar= e
> of that day.
>
> And here we are in 2013 *still* fiddling with partition tables, fixed<= br> > file systems, fixed mountpoints and we still bang our heads weekly
> because sda3 has proven to be too small, and it's a *huge* mission= to
> change it. Yes, LVM has made this sooooo much easier (kudos to Sistina=
> for that) but I believe the entire approach is wrong.
>
> The ZFS approach is better - here's the storage, now do with it wh= at I
> want but don't employ arbitrary fixed limits and structures to do = it.
>

+1 on ZFS. It's honestly a truly *modern* filesystem.

Been using it as the storage back-end of my company's em= ail server.

The zpool and zfs command may need some time to be familiar = with, but the self-mounting self-sharing ability of zfs (i.e., no need to m= uck with fstab and exports files) is really sweet.

I really leveraged its ability to do what I call "delta= snapshot shipping" (i.e., send only the differences between two snaps= hots to another place). It's almost like an asynchronous DRBD, but with= the added peace of mind that if the files become corrupted (due to buggy a= pp, almost no way for ZFS to let corrupt data exist), I can easily 'rol= l back' to the time where the files are still uncorrupted.

Rgds,
--

--bcaec54866727ab1d404e4d39ea0--