From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1RYehb-0004of-1E for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 14:11:59 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B4A1221C15E; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 14:11:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qy0-f181.google.com (mail-qy0-f181.google.com [209.85.216.181]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEE9921C084 for ; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 14:10:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsf13 with SMTP id f13so2063672qcs.40 for ; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 06:10:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=aX8OUXGP5eAsBLmtX/l9hCEc8AXItFNHNA6nJz6nNnQ=; b=UyFiUUMR2NAk4tK3fL/F0mt0CbqamYQ3JFhE62M+6rSPulDGzLs2TM1dRCntF5Ic58 bt5TKv3e+WjgLIkWqEXJS94oRRE0LvCuLIEYk0Xyl1zvdtINuZJDOYGXSVhoiNlH5dmX pR5hdDu0o60XlLZ93hvIn2KwR4b6Y1OeZ+3WA= Received: by 10.50.180.193 with SMTP id dq1mr3847192igc.34.1323353437187; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 06:10:37 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.43.45.9 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Dec 2011 06:10:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20111205201409.GA937@gaurahari.merseine.nu> <201112052332.24643.michaelkintzios@gmail.com> <20111206111531.5d5843bd@hactar.digimed.co.uk> <20111206220439.GA15412@badass.gateway.2wire.net> From: James Broadhead Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 14:10:16 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: f5a7d25e-cb7a-46ca-b011-ac789883023b X-Archives-Hash: 27c8c59bc677301758b105d05fbc7af1 On 7 December 2011 15:58, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2011-12-07, Stroller wrote: >> >> On 6 December 2011, at 23:25, Grant Edwards wrote: >>> ... >>> The Ubuntu documentation seems to be mainly user-forum threads full of >>> wrong answers posted by people who didn't understand the question. >> >> I tried Ubuntu, hated this *so* much. >> >> I'm sure all the respondents were just trying to be helpful, but they >> made Ubuntu look like the distro of idiots. > > Ubuntu is intended to be usable by people ignorant of how Linux/Unix > works. =C2=A0As such, it does tend to get used by people who are ignorant > of how Linux/Unix works. =C2=A0Asking such a group for technical help is = an > express-train to frustration -- but there doesn't really seem to be > anywhere you can ask questions of Ubuntu users who _do_ understand > things. This actually expresses it quite well - because they dropped the barrier to entry, they end up with a much wider audience, but one which doesn't obsess over learning how their system operates as much as other distros. Additionally, Ubuntu suffers from the devs attempts to include the newest versions of packages as stable before the majority of distros think that they are ready[1], while trying to maintain wide 'it just works' compatibility. They also tend towards over-engineering around problems in linux / apt, rather than solving the root problem, or relying on their users to adapt or deal with it themselves.[2] Especially in the past, they have allowed their political views on Open Source / Free Software to interfere with the best user experience[3]. [1] Pulseaudio, KDE4 (others, I'm sure) [2] The grub2 config process in Ubuntu is torturous, and includes editing a file in /etc/defaults of all things. [3] The whole concept of 'restricted extras' is detrimental to distro usability, as is having a separate package-manager-frontend for installing them, as is a separate repository which is disabled by default.