[gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Nilesh Govindrajan]

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So the same old query again I guess.
What architecture should I use for a machine with 3GB RAM and a 64bit
processor?

I believe 64bit should be given serious consideration only if RAM is gt or
= 4 GB, even there 32bit is allowable with PAE if I'm not wrong.

So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go 64bit
for me.

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[gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[»Q«]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 07:52:08 +0530
Nilesh Govindrajan <contact@nileshgr.com> wrote:

> So the same old query again I guess.
> What architecture should I use for a machine with 3GB RAM and a 64bit
> processor?
> 
> I believe 64bit should be given serious consideration only if RAM is
> gt or = 4 GB, even there 32bit is allowable with PAE if I'm not wrong.
> 
> So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go
> 64bit for me.

I'd go with 64-bit mostly because it's my impression more people
(both devs and users) are using it now than 32-bit, so ebuilds/packages
get more testing under 64-bit.

But you don't say why you believe 64-bit shouldn't be seriously
considered for a machine with <4 GiB RAM.

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Mark Knecht]

On 7/16/12, Nilesh Govindrajan <contact@nileshgr.com> wrote:
> So the same old query again I guess.
> What architecture should I use for a machine with 3GB RAM and a 64bit
> processor?
>
> I believe 64bit should be given serious consideration only if RAM is gt or
> = 4 GB, even there 32bit is allowable with PAE if I'm not wrong.
>
> So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go 64bit
> for me.
>

Why 32? ... Flash, win32 codecs, probably Wine but not sure as it has
been years...

Why 64? ... Virtualization...

Depends on what you want and/or need.

HTH,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Michael Mol]

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 10:52 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/16/12, Nilesh Govindrajan <contact@nileshgr.com> wrote:
>> So the same old query again I guess.
>> What architecture should I use for a machine with 3GB RAM and a 64bit
>> processor?
>>
>> I believe 64bit should be given serious consideration only if RAM is gt or
>> = 4 GB, even there 32bit is allowable with PAE if I'm not wrong.
>>
>> So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go 64bit
>> for me.
>>
>
> Why 32? ... Flash, win32 codecs, probably Wine but not sure as it has
> been years...

64-bit WINE worked for me. Even for running 32-bit WoW. (Though I was
running a multilib profile. Uncertain if that had an impact.)

>
> Why 64? ... Virtualization...
>
> Depends on what you want and/or need.

IMO, it's worth the 'overhead' to run 64-bit, if only for the greater
number of GPRs and other architectural improvements. There's honestly
a lot of good stuff in x86-64 beyond the larger address space. The
increased address space also helps long-lived programs avoid address
space fragmentation.

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Mark Knecht]

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 10:52 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>>> So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go 64bit
>>> for me.
>>>
>>
>> Why 32? ... Flash, win32 codecs, probably Wine but not sure as it has
>> been years...
>
> 64-bit WINE worked for me. Even for running 32-bit WoW. (Though I was
> running a multilib profile. Uncertain if that had an impact.)
>
>>
>> Why 64? ... Virtualization...
>>
>> Depends on what you want and/or need.
>
> IMO, it's worth the 'overhead' to run 64-bit, if only for the greater
> number of GPRs and other architectural improvements. There's honestly
> a lot of good stuff in x86-64 beyond the larger address space. The
> increased address space also helps long-lived programs avoid address
> space fragmentation.
>
> --
> :wq
>

Agreed. I only boot 64-bit here, but different than all you
heavy-lifters my machines are 98% stable, 2% ~amd64. That said I do
have problems not only with Flash on my machine with 2 Nvidia cards
but also with OpenGL. However none of that on any other 64-bit
machines.

As for the win32 codec stuff I use Windows VMs to watch any stuff I
want to watch, and a fairly trim Gentoo 32-bit VM so that I can run
Linux apps to convert certain Windows format files, etc.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Bill Kenworthy]

On Mon, 2012-07-16 at 19:52 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
> On 7/16/12, Nilesh Govindrajan <contact@nileshgr.com> wrote:
> > So the same old query again I guess.
> > What architecture should I use for a machine with 3GB RAM and a 64bit
> > processor?
> >
> > I believe 64bit should be given serious consideration only if RAM is gt or
> > = 4 GB, even there 32bit is allowable with PAE if I'm not wrong.
> >
> > So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go 64bit
> > for me.
> >
> 
> Why 32? ... Flash, win32 codecs, probably Wine but not sure as it has
> been years...
> 
> Why 64? ... Virtualization...
> 
> Depends on what you want and/or need.
> 
> HTH,
> Mark
> 

Virtualisation ? I am running qemu (windows, gentoo), vbox (windows,
gentoo, fedora) and gxemul (ultrix) all 32 bit guests on 32 bit systems
on either 32 or 64 bit hardware running gentoo - can you confirm you
need 64bit for 64bit guests as I will be moving that way eventually?

That being said, I think for future proofing 64bit is the way to go, I
can see a time when 32bit is going to get deprecated.

Billk

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Michael Mol]

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 11:29 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 10:52 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> <SNIP>
>>>> So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go 64bit
>>>> for me.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why 32? ... Flash, win32 codecs, probably Wine but not sure as it has
>>> been years...
>>
>> 64-bit WINE worked for me. Even for running 32-bit WoW. (Though I was
>> running a multilib profile. Uncertain if that had an impact.)
>>
>>>
>>> Why 64? ... Virtualization...
>>>
>>> Depends on what you want and/or need.
>>
>> IMO, it's worth the 'overhead' to run 64-bit, if only for the greater
>> number of GPRs and other architectural improvements. There's honestly
>> a lot of good stuff in x86-64 beyond the larger address space. The
>> increased address space also helps long-lived programs avoid address
>> space fragmentation.
>>
>> --
>> :wq
>>
>
> Agreed. I only boot 64-bit here, but different than all you
> heavy-lifters my machines are 98% stable, 2% ~amd64. That said I do
> have problems not only with Flash on my machine with 2 Nvidia cards
> but also with OpenGL. However none of that on any other 64-bit
> machines.
>
> As for the win32 codec stuff I use Windows VMs to watch any stuff I
> want to watch, and a fairly trim Gentoo 32-bit VM so that I can run
> Linux apps to convert certain Windows format files, etc.

FWIW, I run 98% (or thereabouts ;) ) stable, too.

No trouble with Flash on either nVidia or AMD. No trouble playing
Diablo III or WoW on WINE with apps-emu/playonlinux and nVidia.
Recently switched to an AMD GPU. No trouble with Flash there, either.
Haven't tried WoW, but I've got lots of weird artifacts in Diablo III
which don't make the game unplayable, but might to a less-tolerant
person.

This is all on an amd64 system. I don't know what it's like in 32-bit
x86 on Gentoo, as I've never run that form of Gentoo; I let multilib
handle things there.

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Michael Mol]

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 11:36 PM, Bill Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-07-16 at 19:52 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
>> On 7/16/12, Nilesh Govindrajan <contact@nileshgr.com> wrote:
>> > So the same old query again I guess.
>> > What architecture should I use for a machine with 3GB RAM and a 64bit
>> > processor?
>> >
>> > I believe 64bit should be given serious consideration only if RAM is gt or
>> > = 4 GB, even there 32bit is allowable with PAE if I'm not wrong.
>> >
>> > So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go 64bit
>> > for me.
>> >
>>
>> Why 32? ... Flash, win32 codecs, probably Wine but not sure as it has
>> been years...
>>
>> Why 64? ... Virtualization...
>>
>> Depends on what you want and/or need.
>>
>> HTH,
>> Mark
>>
>
> Virtualisation ? I am running qemu (windows, gentoo), vbox (windows,
> gentoo, fedora) and gxemul (ultrix) all 32 bit guests on 32 bit systems
> on either 32 or 64 bit hardware running gentoo - can you confirm you
> need 64bit for 64bit guests as I will be moving that way eventually?
>
> That being said, I think for future proofing 64bit is the way to go, I
> can see a time when 32bit is going to get deprecated.

If you want hardware-accelerated virtualization, you will need to run
a 64-bit host if you want to run a 64-bit guest. That much I know.
From my experience on Windows, I can note that you can use
hardware-accelerated virtualization of 32-bit guests on both 32-bit
and 64-bit hosts.

These are just properties of the hardware; there's nothing special
about Linux or Windows in this regard.

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tue, July 17, 2012 5:36 am, Bill Kenworthy wrote:

<SNIPPED>

> Virtualisation ? I am running qemu (windows, gentoo), vbox (windows,
> gentoo, fedora) and gxemul (ultrix) all 32 bit guests on 32 bit systems
> on either 32 or 64 bit hardware running gentoo - can you confirm you
> need 64bit for 64bit guests as I will be moving that way eventually?
>
> That being said, I think for future proofing 64bit is the way to go, I
> can see a time when 32bit is going to get deprecated.

In my experience:
32bit host : Only 32 bit guest
64bit host : 32 bit and 64 bit guest

I have not been able to run a 64 bit guest on a 32 bit host.

-- 
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

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There is no reason to use 32bit.
Am 17.07.2012 04:28 schrieb "Nilesh Govindrajan" <contact@nileshgr.com>:

> So the same old query again I guess.
> What architecture should I use for a machine with 3GB RAM and a 64bit
> processor?
>
> I believe 64bit should be given serious consideration only if RAM is gt or
> = 4 GB, even there 32bit is allowable with PAE if I'm not wrong.
>
> So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go 64bit
> for me.
>

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[gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 17/07/12 05:22, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote:
> So the same old query again I guess.
> What architecture should I use for a machine with 3GB RAM and a 64bit
> processor?
>
> I believe 64bit should be given serious consideration only if RAM is gt
> or = 4 GB, even there 32bit is allowable with PAE if I'm not wrong.
>
> So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go
> 64bit for me.

Since your CPU is 64-bit, use that.  You will find reports out there 
about how 64-bit consumes more RAM.  The effect however is very small.

Also, if you later get more RAM, you won't have to switch archs.  DDR3 
is very cheap, about 5 bucks ($ or €) per GB right now.

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Pandu Poluan]

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On Jul 17, 2012 10:08 AM, "Michael Mol" <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>
--- >8
>
> IMO, it's worth the 'overhead' to run 64-bit, if only for the greater
> number of GPRs and other architectural improvements. There's honestly
> a lot of good stuff in x86-64 beyond the larger address space. The
> increased address space also helps long-lived programs avoid address
> space fragmentation.
>
> --
> :wq
>

+1 on architectural improvements.

From a purely data-wise view: with 64 bits, Long Integers will be handled
much faster than having to manhandle 2 32-bit chunks of half-integers.

Rgds,

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Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Leiking]

64bit means bugs.?? But I use 64.

2012/7/17 Pandu Poluan <pandu@poluan.info>:
>
> On Jul 17, 2012 10:08 AM, "Michael Mol" <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
> --- >8
>
>
>>
>> IMO, it's worth the 'overhead' to run 64-bit, if only for the greater
>> number of GPRs and other architectural improvements. There's honestly
>> a lot of good stuff in x86-64 beyond the larger address space. The
>> increased address space also helps long-lived programs avoid address
>> space fragmentation.
>>
>> --
>> :wq
>>
>
> +1 on architectural improvements.
>
> From a purely data-wise view: with 64 bits, Long Integers will be handled
> much faster than having to manhandle 2 32-bit chunks of half-integers.
>
> Rgds,

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Nilesh Govindrajan]

On 07/17/2012 07:19 PM, Leiking wrote:
> 64bit means bugs.?? But I use 64.
>
> 2012/7/17 Pandu Poluan <pandu@poluan.info>:
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2012 10:08 AM, "Michael Mol" <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>> --- >8
>>
>>
>>>
>>> IMO, it's worth the 'overhead' to run 64-bit, if only for the greater
>>> number of GPRs and other architectural improvements. There's honestly
>>> a lot of good stuff in x86-64 beyond the larger address space. The
>>> increased address space also helps long-lived programs avoid address
>>> space fragmentation.
>>>
>>> --
>>> :wq
>>>
>>
>> +1 on architectural improvements.
>>
>>  From a purely data-wise view: with 64 bits, Long Integers will be handled
>> much faster than having to manhandle 2 32-bit chunks of half-integers.
>>
>> Rgds,
>

Bugs. This is why I wanted to get an answer to this question specifically.

I've been using Gentoo since one year and with amd64 only. But recently 
(if you noticed), I'd posted a thread about lot of segfaults.

As much as I was compelled to think that something is really wrong with 
my hardware, a similar segfault bug occurred on an _amd64_ Gentoo VM 
with Linode I manage, that too with a program that had been working ever 
since I installed it, and there were no updates as such.

But from the inputs I received, I think it would be obviously better to 
stay with 64bit.

Is it only me or the ~amd64 branch has become really unstable in the few 
days? (Yeah I know ~amd64 can be unstable to any extent it wants to, but 
just a qualitative question)

-- 
Nilesh Govindrajan
http://nileshgr.com

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Mark Knecht]

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:23 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
> This is all on an amd64 system. I don't know what it's like in 32-bit
> x86 on Gentoo, as I've never run that form of Gentoo; I let multilib
> handle things there.
>
> --
> :wq
>

Correct me if I'm wrong please but as I remember it everyone running
64-bit is running multi-lib unless they specifically choose a
no-multilib profile, correct?

Anyway, I suspect our systems are reasonably similar in terms of
capability, and for clarity, the only 64-bit machine I have any
troubles on, which are Flash & OpenGL/KDE, is my compute server that
runs VMs all day, and those problems only started when I added a
second Nvidia card. With a single card & 2 monitors everything was
fine. With 2 cards, both Nvidia but different models, and 3 monitors,
Flash in Firefox fails all the time, (But not Flash in Chrome where
it's built in) and some of the nice OpenGL features of KDE simply
don't operate any more.

If I had lots of money I'd look into an Nvidia card that supports 4
outputs but for now I'm stuck with what I've got!

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Michael Mol]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:23 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
> <SNIP>
>> This is all on an amd64 system. I don't know what it's like in 32-bit
>> x86 on Gentoo, as I've never run that form of Gentoo; I let multilib
>> handle things there.
>>
>> --
>> :wq
>>
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong please but as I remember it everyone running
> 64-bit is running multi-lib unless they specifically choose a
> no-multilib profile, correct?

Correct. And I'm not using a no-multilib profile, either.

>
> Anyway, I suspect our systems are reasonably similar in terms of
> capability, and for clarity, the only 64-bit machine I have any
> troubles on, which are Flash & OpenGL/KDE, is my compute server that
> runs VMs all day, and those problems only started when I added a
> second Nvidia card.

I haven't run a dual-card setup. I have two systems I can relate to.
One is a dual-E5345 system with 10GB of RAM, and one is a Phenom 9650
with 8GB of RAM.

> With a single card & 2 monitors everything was
> fine. With 2 cards, both Nvidia but different models, and 3 monitors,
> Flash in Firefox fails all the time, (But not Flash in Chrome where
> it's built in) and some of the nice OpenGL features of KDE simply
> don't operate any more.

I haven't run a multimon setup in a while. I sacrificed one of my
displays as a debugging display for another machine.

What driver are you using? About 3 years ago, I had a setup going
where I was using both my onboard ATI RadeonHD3200 and an nVidia
GeForce 210 with five displays split across the two. Flash never
*crashed* on me, but it did get extraordinarily confused whenever it
came time to fullscreen.

(I did eventually switch to using an ATI Radeon 5770, but only because
of the headaches trying to manage things with two different
proprietary tools. You could do some scary stuff at the time. I don't
know if that's still possible. I'm certain I was running an
unsupported configuration...)

>
> If I had lots of money I'd look into an Nvidia card that supports 4
> outputs but for now I'm stuck with what I've got!

I'd bet on it being a driver issue.

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am Dienstag, 17. Juli 2012, 07:52:08 schrieb Nilesh Govindrajan:
> So the same old query again I guess.
> What architecture should I use for a machine with 3GB RAM and a 64bit
> processor?
> 
> I believe 64bit should be given serious consideration only if RAM is gt or
> = 4 GB, even there 32bit is allowable with PAE if I'm not wrong.
> 
> So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go 64bit
> for me.

now that I am home: you believe wrong.

There are many good reasons to go 64 bit. Easier memory managment, more 
registers. Bigger register. Faster math because of the bigger registers.

There is seriously NUL reasons to use 32bit. Zero. Zilch. Why throw away all 
those nice improvements - for nothing in return?

Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit 
ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit. Those who were troublemakers were 
also unplayable with 32bit codecs. Flash? Just works. Stable? You bet.

The only use case that might come up is wine - I don't know anything about 
that beast. Haven't had any use for it in years.

-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am Dienstag, 17. Juli 2012, 19:34:32 schrieb Nilesh Govindrajan:

> 
> Is it only me or the ~amd64 branch has become really unstable in the few
> days? (Yeah I know ~amd64 can be unstable to any extent it wants to, but
> just a qualitative question)

It is you. Some gnome/freedesktop/whatthehell stuff interacting badly. Not a 
64bit problem.

-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Michael Mol]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
<volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 17. Juli 2012, 07:52:08 schrieb Nilesh Govindrajan:
>> So the same old query again I guess.
>> What architecture should I use for a machine with 3GB RAM and a 64bit
>> processor?
>>
>> I believe 64bit should be given serious consideration only if RAM is gt or
>> = 4 GB, even there 32bit is allowable with PAE if I'm not wrong.
>>
>> So what is recommended? There are as such no special use cases to go 64bit
>> for me.
>
> now that I am home: you believe wrong.
>
> There are many good reasons to go 64 bit. Easier memory managment, more
> registers. Bigger register. Faster math because of the bigger registers.
>
> There is seriously NUL reasons to use 32bit. Zero. Zilch. Why throw away all
> those nice improvements - for nothing in return?
>
> Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit
> ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit. Those who were troublemakers were
> also unplayable with 32bit codecs. Flash? Just works. Stable? You bet.
>
> The only use case that might come up is wine - I don't know anything about
> that beast. Haven't had any use for it in years.

IME, 64-bit WINE 64-bit works as well as 32-bit WINE...Which is to
say, your mileage will vary based on what you're doing, same as it
always has.

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Alecks Gates]

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On Jul 17, 2012 11:32 AM, "Volker Armin Hemmann" <volkerarmin@googlemail.com>
wrote:
*snip*
> The only use case that might come up is wine - I don't know anything about
> that beast. Haven't had any use for it in years.
>
> --
> #163933
>
I use wine daily on 64 bit with no problems.  You can generate a 32 or 64
bit config with the "WINEARCH" setting but I haven't found a reason to use
a win64 config (nor do I know the differences within wine).  I am not sure
if a 32 bit OS would make a wine any faster, but probably not noticeably
faster.

OT: Wine on Gentoo seems much faster than other distros.  I think this is
one case where the performance makes a difference.  I usually do it with
Lord of the Rings Online, which is more intensive than WoW as Michael
mentioned to run.

Alecks Gates, sent from Android on an HTC G2

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Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Mark Knecht]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann
<volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>
> Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit
> ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit.
<SNIP>

Lots of wmv files won't play in 64-bit. That's the only one I have
trouble with. They play fine in 32-bit Gentoo.

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Michael Hampicke]

>> Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit
>> ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit.
> <SNIP>
> 
> Lots of wmv files won't play in 64-bit. That's the only one I have
> trouble with. They play fine in 32-bit Gentoo.
>
Mark, was thinking of you and your videos that don't play on 64bit when
I read Volkers statement :)
ffmpeg know lots of shit, but not all if it.

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Mark Knecht]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Michael Hampicke <gentoo-user@hadt.biz> wrote:
>>> Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit
>>> ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit.
>> <SNIP>
>>
>> Lots of wmv files won't play in 64-bit. That's the only one I have
>> trouble with. They play fine in 32-bit Gentoo.
>>
> Mark, was thinking of you and your videos that don't play on 64bit when
> I read Volkers statement :)
> ffmpeg know lots of shit, but not all if it.
>

Yeah, that's the truth. I suspect this specific case just lacks a
smart developer who wants to figure it all out and do the work to make
an Open Source codec that plays the file type, but maybe there's
patents and other junk that gets in the way.

And really, as I use a lot of VM's all day long, it doesn't seem
overly important any more. It's trivial to just run a Windows VM to
play wmv files whereas finding someone in the Linux world who actually
cares about supporting and promoting the wmv format seems like a waste
of my time and theirs. They can work on better things.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Michael Mol]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Michael Hampicke <gentoo-user@hadt.biz> wrote:
>>>> Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit
>>>> ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit.
>>> <SNIP>
>>>
>>> Lots of wmv files won't play in 64-bit. That's the only one I have
>>> trouble with. They play fine in 32-bit Gentoo.
>>>
>> Mark, was thinking of you and your videos that don't play on 64bit when
>> I read Volkers statement :)
>> ffmpeg know lots of shit, but not all if it.
>>
>
> Yeah, that's the truth. I suspect this specific case just lacks a
> smart developer who wants to figure it all out and do the work to make
> an Open Source codec that plays the file type, but maybe there's
> patents and other junk that gets in the way.

It's possible they just don't have a sample to work with. If you can
send it to them, they can at least add it to their samples archives.


>
> And really, as I use a lot of VM's all day long, it doesn't seem
> overly important any more. It's trivial to just run a Windows VM to
> play wmv files whereas finding someone in the Linux world who actually
> cares about supporting and promoting the wmv format seems like a waste
> of my time and theirs. They can work on better things.

There are containers and codecs. Most containers are supported,
leaving the codecs.

Can you post the output of 'mplayer -identify $filename' on that file?

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Michael Hampicke]

>> And really, as I use a lot of VM's all day long, it doesn't seem
>> overly important any more. It's trivial to just run a Windows VM to
>> play wmv files whereas finding someone in the Linux world who actually
>> cares about supporting and promoting the wmv format seems like a waste
>> of my time and theirs. They can work on better things.
> 
> There are containers and codecs. Most containers are supported,
> leaving the codecs.
> 
> Can you post the output of 'mplayer -identify $filename' on that file?
> 

If memory serves me right it was MSS2 which requires a 32bit mplayer
build with the win32codecs use flag enabled.

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Mark Knecht]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Michael Hampicke <gentoo-user@hadt.biz> wrote:
>>>>> Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit
>>>>> ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit.
>>>> <SNIP>
>>>>
>>>> Lots of wmv files won't play in 64-bit. That's the only one I have
>>>> trouble with. They play fine in 32-bit Gentoo.
>>>>
>>> Mark, was thinking of you and your videos that don't play on 64bit when
>>> I read Volkers statement :)
>>> ffmpeg know lots of shit, but not all if it.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, that's the truth. I suspect this specific case just lacks a
>> smart developer who wants to figure it all out and do the work to make
>> an Open Source codec that plays the file type, but maybe there's
>> patents and other junk that gets in the way.
>
> It's possible they just don't have a sample to work with. If you can
> send it to them, they can at least add it to their samples archives.
>
>
>>
>> And really, as I use a lot of VM's all day long, it doesn't seem
>> overly important any more. It's trivial to just run a Windows VM to
>> play wmv files whereas finding someone in the Linux world who actually
>> cares about supporting and promoting the wmv format seems like a waste
>> of my time and theirs. They can work on better things.
>
> There are containers and codecs. Most containers are supported,
> leaving the codecs.
>
> Can you post the output of 'mplayer -identify $filename' on that file?
>
> --
> :wq
>

Point me toward a samples archive and I'll post a file.

The file plays audio in mplayer. There is no video which is consistent
with what I see here. Granted, this is 64-bit and I don't have
win32codecs installed which is what plays it on the 32-bit VM.

- Mark


mark@c2stable ~/Builder/1_BrooksPriceAction/2012_04 $ mplayer
-identify BTR20120330-3544edit.wmv
MPlayer SVN-r33094-4.5.3 (C) 2000-2011 MPlayer Team

Playing BTR20120330-3544edit.wmv.
ASF file format detected.
ID_AUDIO_ID=1
[asfheader] Audio stream found, -aid 1
ID_VIDEO_ID=2
[asfheader] Video stream found, -vid 2
VIDEO:  [MSS2]  1366x740  24bpp  1000.000 fps  4971.0 kbps (606.8 kbyte/s)
Load subtitles in ./
ID_FILENAME=BTR20120330-3544edit.wmv
ID_DEMUXER=asf
ID_VIDEO_FORMAT=MSS2
ID_VIDEO_BITRATE=4971000
ID_VIDEO_WIDTH=1366
ID_VIDEO_HEIGHT=740
ID_VIDEO_FPS=1000.000
ID_VIDEO_ASPECT=0.0000
ID_AUDIO_FORMAT=353
ID_AUDIO_BITRATE=0
ID_AUDIO_RATE=0
ID_AUDIO_NCH=0
ID_START_TIME=5.00
ID_LENGTH=8713.83
ID_SEEKABLE=1
ID_CHAPTERS=0
==========================================================================
Requested video codec family [wmsdmod] (vfm=dmo) not available.
Enable it at compilation.
Requested video codec family [wms10dmod] (vfm=dmo) not available.
Enable it at compilation.
Cannot find codec matching selected -vo and video format 0x3253534D.
==========================================================================
==========================================================================
Opening audio decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg/libavcodec audio decoders
AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 1 ch, s16le, 20.0 kbit/2.84% (ratio: 2501->88200)
ID_AUDIO_BITRATE=20008
ID_AUDIO_RATE=44100
ID_AUDIO_NCH=1
Selected audio codec: [ffwmav2] afm: ffmpeg (DivX audio v2 (FFmpeg))
==========================================================================
AO: [alsa] 48000Hz 1ch s16le (2 bytes per sample)
ID_AUDIO_CODEC=ffwmav2
Video: no video
Starting playback...
A:  16.1 (16.0) of 8713.8 ( 2:25:13.8)  0.3%


MPlayer interrupted by signal 2 in module: play_audio
ID_SIGNAL=2
A:  16.1 (16.1) of 8713.8 ( 2:25:13.8)  0.3%

Exiting... (Quit)
ID_EXIT=QUIT

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Michael Mol]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Michael Hampicke <gentoo-user@hadt.biz> wrote:
>>>>>> Video-codecs? I haven't seen a video in years that was not playable by 64bit
>>>>>> ffmpeg based players but worked with 32bit.
>>>>> <SNIP>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lots of wmv files won't play in 64-bit. That's the only one I have
>>>>> trouble with. They play fine in 32-bit Gentoo.
>>>>>
>>>> Mark, was thinking of you and your videos that don't play on 64bit when
>>>> I read Volkers statement :)
>>>> ffmpeg know lots of shit, but not all if it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, that's the truth. I suspect this specific case just lacks a
>>> smart developer who wants to figure it all out and do the work to make
>>> an Open Source codec that plays the file type, but maybe there's
>>> patents and other junk that gets in the way.
>>
>> It's possible they just don't have a sample to work with. If you can
>> send it to them, they can at least add it to their samples archives.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> And really, as I use a lot of VM's all day long, it doesn't seem
>>> overly important any more. It's trivial to just run a Windows VM to
>>> play wmv files whereas finding someone in the Linux world who actually
>>> cares about supporting and promoting the wmv format seems like a waste
>>> of my time and theirs. They can work on better things.
>>
>> There are containers and codecs. Most containers are supported,
>> leaving the codecs.
>>
>> Can you post the output of 'mplayer -identify $filename' on that file?

>
> Point me toward a samples archive and I'll post a file.

There may be no need. Not sure.

http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/750

That said, you might get in touch with mike (at) multimedia.cx, as
he's had a long history of involvement. Offer the sample, mention it's
a codec you need to view frequently. Perhaps ask who you might poke
who'd have an interest in it. I'd probably include the above link.

>
> The file plays audio in mplayer. There is no video which is consistent
> with what I see here. Granted, this is 64-bit and I don't have
> win32codecs installed which is what plays it on the 32-bit VM.

[snip]

Yeah, it's MSS2. And it sounds like upstream is aware of it.

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Mark Knecht]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>>> There are containers and codecs. Most containers are supported,
>>> leaving the codecs.
>>>
>>> Can you post the output of 'mplayer -identify $filename' on that file?
>
>>
>> Point me toward a samples archive and I'll post a file.
>
> There may be no need. Not sure.
>
> http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/750
>
> That said, you might get in touch with mike (at) multimedia.cx, as
> he's had a long history of involvement. Offer the sample, mention it's
> a codec you need to view frequently. Perhaps ask who you might poke
> who'd have an interest in it. I'd probably include the above link.
>
>>
>> The file plays audio in mplayer. There is no video which is consistent
>> with what I see here. Granted, this is 64-bit and I don't have
>> win32codecs installed which is what plays it on the 32-bit VM.
>
> [snip]
>
> Yeah, it's MSS2. And it sounds like upstream is aware of it.
>
> --
> :wq
>

Indeed, I downloaded the wmv file attached to that report and it does
the same thing. Audio is fine, no video.

Cheers,
Mark

- Mark

[gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 17/07/12 19:43, Alecks Gates wrote:
> On Jul 17, 2012 11:32 AM, "Volker Armin Hemmann"
> <volkerarmin@googlemail.com <mailto:volkerarmin@googlemail.com>> wrote:
> *snip*
>  > The only use case that might come up is wine - I don't know anything
> about
>  > that beast. Haven't had any use for it in years.
>  >
>  > --
>  > #163933
>  >
> I use wine daily on 64 bit with no problems.

64-bit Wine cannot run 32-bit Windows applications.  You need a 32-bit 
Wine for that.  And since in 99.9% of Windows software is 32-bit... 
well, you get the point :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[Alecks Gates]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17/07/12 19:43, Alecks Gates wrote:
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2012 11:32 AM, "Volker Armin Hemmann"
>> <volkerarmin@googlemail.com <mailto:volkerarmin@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>> *snip*
>>  > The only use case that might come up is wine - I don't know anything
>> about
>>  > that beast. Haven't had any use for it in years.
>>  >
>>  > --
>>  > #163933
>>  >
>> I use wine daily on 64 bit with no problems.
>
>
> 64-bit Wine cannot run 32-bit Windows applications.  You need a 32-bit Wine
> for that.  And since in 99.9% of Windows software is 32-bit... well, you get
> the point :-)
>
>
Sure, but 64-bit wine can run either a win32 or a win64 config, and
you have to enable win64 with the "win64" USE flag.  I believe this
makes the win64 config default and you have to set WINEARCH=win32 if
you want only 32-bit.

According to the winehq docs[1] the WINEARCH environment variable
"Specifies the Windows architecture to support. It can be set either
to win32 (support only 32-bit applications), or to win64 (support both
64-bit applications and 32-bit ones in WoW64 mode). The architecture
supported by a given Wine prefix is set at prefix creation time and
cannot be changed afterwards. When running with an existing prefix,
Wine will refuse to start if WINEARCH doesn't match the prefix
architecture."  It is meant to be able to run both 64-bit and 32-bit
applications, but I think it's a bit buggy -- I've had some trouble
installing microsoft visual c++ runtimes due to running a win64
config, but I could have been doing it wrong.

[1] http://www.winehq.org/docs/wineusr-guide/x258

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[Paul Hartman]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17/07/12 19:43, Alecks Gates wrote:
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2012 11:32 AM, "Volker Armin Hemmann"
>> <volkerarmin@googlemail.com <mailto:volkerarmin@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>> *snip*
>>  > The only use case that might come up is wine - I don't know anything
>> about
>>  > that beast. Haven't had any use for it in years.
>>  >
>>  > --
>>  > #163933
>>  >
>> I use wine daily on 64 bit with no problems.
>
>
> 64-bit Wine cannot run 32-bit Windows applications.  You need a 32-bit Wine
> for that.  And since in 99.9% of Windows software is 32-bit... well, you get
> the point :-)

Wine supports a WoW64 setup, where you build both 32-bit and 64-bit
wine, and 32- and 64-bit binaries are interoperable. I just took a
brief look at the gentoo ebuild and it appears to enable this if you
have both win32 and win64 USE flags set. I haven't tried it myself, so
I can't say if or how it really works. :)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[Nilesh Govindrajan]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1214 bytes --]

> On Jul 18, 2012 2:52 AM, "Paul Hartman" <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > On 17/07/12 19:43, Alecks Gates wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Jul 17, 2012 11:32 AM, "Volker Armin Hemmann"
> > >> <volkerarmin@googlemail.com <mailto:volkerarmin@googlemail.com>>
wrote:
> > >> *snip*
> > >>  > The only use case that might come up is wine - I don't know
anything
> > >> about
> > >>  > that beast. Haven't had any use for it in years.
> > >>  >
> > >>  > --
> > >>  > #163933
> > >>  >
> > >> I use wine daily on 64 bit with no problems.
> > >
> > >
> > > 64-bit Wine cannot run 32-bit Windows applications.  You need a
32-bit Wine
> > > for that.  And since in 99.9% of Windows software is 32-bit... well,
you get
> > > the point :-)
> >
> > Wine supports a WoW64 setup, where you build both 32-bit and 64-bit
> > wine, and 32- and 64-bit binaries are interoperable. I just took a
> > brief look at the gentoo ebuild and it appears to enable this if you
> > have both win32 and win64 USE flags set. I haven't tried it myself, so
> > I can't say if or how it really works. :)
> >
Good discussion, guys. I'll continue with 64bit :)

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Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 10:32:24 -0400, Michael Mol wrote:

> I haven't run a multimon setup in a while. I sacrificed one of my
> displays as a debugging display for another machine.

I use a KVM to get the best of both worlds with my second monitor.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Cereal Killer Strikes Again! Cap'n Crunch found dead...

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Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tue, July 17, 2012 8:49 pm, Mark Knecht wrote:

<SNIPPED>

> ==========================================================================
> Requested video codec family [wmsdmod] (vfm=dmo) not available.
> Enable it at compilation.
> Requested video codec family [wms10dmod] (vfm=dmo) not available.
> Enable it at compilation.
> Cannot find codec matching selected -vo and video format 0x3253534D.
> ==========================================================================

I don't have a linux box at hand right now, but the above comments make me
think there might be a compile-time option to enable support?


-- 
Joost

[gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 18/07/12 00:14, Alecks Gates wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 64-bit Wine cannot run 32-bit Windows applications.  You need a 32-bit Wine
>> for that.  And since in 99.9% of Windows software is 32-bit... well, you get
>> the point :-)
>>
>>
> Sure, but 64-bit wine can run either a win32 or a win64 config, and
> you have to enable win64 with the "win64" USE flag.  I believe this
> makes the win64 config default and you have to set WINEARCH=win32 if
> you want only 32-bit.

Interesting that Wine aims to do the WOW64 thing.  That's certainly news 
to me :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Mark Knecht]

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 10:34 PM, J. Roeleveld <joost@antarean.org> wrote:
>
> On Tue, July 17, 2012 8:49 pm, Mark Knecht wrote:
>
> <SNIPPED>
>
>> ==========================================================================
>> Requested video codec family [wmsdmod] (vfm=dmo) not available.
>> Enable it at compilation.
>> Requested video codec family [wms10dmod] (vfm=dmo) not available.
>> Enable it at compilation.
>> Cannot find codec matching selected -vo and video format 0x3253534D.
>> ==========================================================================
>
> I don't have a linux box at hand right now, but the above comments make me
> think there might be a compile-time option to enable support?
>
>
> --
> Joost
>

There is, and it works, but it only works in 32-bit which, following
Volker's comments, is the only reason I made the post in the first
place.

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[Michael Mol]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 18/07/12 00:14, Alecks Gates wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 64-bit Wine cannot run 32-bit Windows applications.  You need a 32-bit
>>> Wine
>>> for that.  And since in 99.9% of Windows software is 32-bit... well, you
>>> get
>>> the point :-)
>>>
>>>
>> Sure, but 64-bit wine can run either a win32 or a win64 config, and
>> you have to enable win64 with the "win64" USE flag.  I believe this
>> makes the win64 config default and you have to set WINEARCH=win32 if
>> you want only 32-bit.
>
>
> Interesting that Wine aims to do the WOW64 thing.  That's certainly news to
> me :-)

Not really surprising. There's an IsWow64Process() in the Windows API
to allow processes to detect the nature of the environment they're
running on, since sometimes that's something you need to know. :)

-- 
:wq

[gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 19/07/12 16:03, Michael Mol wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Interesting that Wine aims to do the WOW64 thing.  That's certainly news to
>> me :-)
>
> Not really surprising. There's an IsWow64Process() in the Windows API
> to allow processes to detect the nature of the environment they're
> running on, since sometimes that's something you need to know. :)

WOW64 relies on 32-bit libraries to do it's job though.  It's well known 
that 32-bit code cannot link against 64-bit libraries.  If building a 
64-bit only version of Wine (since you cannot build any 32-bit code on 
non-multilib Gentoo), the question arises on how Wine is doing it.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 16:31:42 +0300
Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 19/07/12 16:03, Michael Mol wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Nikos Chantziaras
> > <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Interesting that Wine aims to do the WOW64 thing.  That's
> >> certainly news to me :-)
> >
> > Not really surprising. There's an IsWow64Process() in the Windows
> > API to allow processes to detect the nature of the environment
> > they're running on, since sometimes that's something you need to
> > know. :)
> 
> WOW64 relies on 32-bit libraries to do it's job though.  It's well
> known that 32-bit code cannot link against 64-bit libraries.  If
> building a 64-bit only version of Wine (since you cannot build any
> 32-bit code on non-multilib Gentoo), the question arises on how Wine
> is doing it.
> 
> 

Stupid question incoming:

What's the WOW in WOW64?

The more I read it as World of Warcraft the more I see that it doesn't
actually fit :-)



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[Michael Hampicke]

> Stupid question incoming:
> 
> What's the WOW in WOW64?
> 
> The more I read it as World of Warcraft the more I see that it doesn't
> actually fit :-)

WOW = Windows-on-Windows

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[Michael Mol]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 16:31:42 +0300
> Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 19/07/12 16:03, Michael Mol wrote:
>> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Nikos Chantziaras
>> > <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Interesting that Wine aims to do the WOW64 thing.  That's
>> >> certainly news to me :-)
>> >
>> > Not really surprising. There's an IsWow64Process() in the Windows
>> > API to allow processes to detect the nature of the environment
>> > they're running on, since sometimes that's something you need to
>> > know. :)
>>
>> WOW64 relies on 32-bit libraries to do it's job though.  It's well
>> known that 32-bit code cannot link against 64-bit libraries.  If
>> building a 64-bit only version of Wine (since you cannot build any
>> 32-bit code on non-multilib Gentoo), the question arises on how Wine
>> is doing it.
>>
>>
>
> Stupid question incoming:
>
> What's the WOW in WOW64?
>
> The more I read it as World of Warcraft the more I see that it doesn't
> actually fit :-)

WOW64 is Windows On Windows 64-bit. It's how 32-bit Windows
applications run on 64-bit Windows.

By and large, the way 32-bit and 64-bit applications and libraries can
communicate with each other are very limited. 64-bit programs can't
load 32-bit libraries, and vice versa. Some environment variables
containing path information are switched out depending on if the
program is 32-bit or 64-bit. Accesses to some registry paths are
shunted to one place or another, depending on if the program is 32-bit
or 64-bit.
For system libraries, 64-bit windows provides both 32-bit and 64-bit
versions of supported libraries, rather like multilib environments on
Linux.

In essence, if you get 64-bit Windows, you're getting two copies of
Windows, a 64-bit version and a 32-bit version, and the kernel shunts
32-bit programs into the 32-bit version while maintaining a reasonably
high degree of interoperability; it's not a complete sandbox.

32-bit and 64-bit processes can still communicate with each other.
mmap()'d files still work the same way, as the filesystem paths don't
change. Named objects such as pipes, events, mutexes...all of those
are handled by the kernel, which has mapping code to allow 32-bit and
64-bit processes to independently gain handles on the same named
objects. (Subject to security attributes and restrictions, of course.)

But, yeah. That's "Windows, on Windows 64-bit", or WOW64.

(P.S. For the Horde!)
-- 
:wq

[gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 19/07/12 17:06, Michael Mol wrote:
> For system libraries, 64-bit windows provides both 32-bit and 64-bit
> versions of supported libraries, rather like multilib environments on
> Linux.

So how does Wine run 32-bit Windows programs on a non-multilib Gentoo? 
Doesn't it need 32-bit *.dll.so files?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[Michael Mol]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 19/07/12 17:06, Michael Mol wrote:
>>
>> For system libraries, 64-bit windows provides both 32-bit and 64-bit
>> versions of supported libraries, rather like multilib environments on
>> Linux.
>
>
> So how does Wine run 32-bit Windows programs on a non-multilib Gentoo?
> Doesn't it need 32-bit *.dll.so files?

WINE is an attempt at a bug-for-bug implementation of the Windows API.
I really don't know how it operates internally. It's something I've
been meaning to get into; I missed out on playing The Old Republic
with my wife.

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] 32bit or 64bit

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2012, 05:57:51 schrieb Mark Knecht:
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 10:34 PM, J. Roeleveld <joost@antarean.org> wrote:
> > On Tue, July 17, 2012 8:49 pm, Mark Knecht wrote:
> > 
> > <SNIPPED>
> > 
> >> =========================================================================
> >> =
> >> Requested video codec family [wmsdmod] (vfm=dmo) not available.
> >> Enable it at compilation.
> >> Requested video codec family [wms10dmod] (vfm=dmo) not available.
> >> Enable it at compilation.
> >> Cannot find codec matching selected -vo and video format 0x3253534D.
> >> =========================================================================
> >> =
> > 
> > I don't have a linux box at hand right now, but the above comments make me
> > think there might be a compile-time option to enable support?
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Joost
> 
> There is, and it works, but it only works in 32-bit which, following
> Volker's comments, is the only reason I made the post in the first
> place.
> 
> - Mark

and I have never stumbled on such a file in all those years - and I have a lot 
of wmv files on my hard disks. Hm.
-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: 32bit or 64bit

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:06:18 -0400
Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Alan McKinnon
> <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 16:31:42 +0300
> > Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 19/07/12 16:03, Michael Mol wrote:
> >> > On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Nikos Chantziaras
> >> > <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Interesting that Wine aims to do the WOW64 thing.  That's
> >> >> certainly news to me :-)
> >> >
> >> > Not really surprising. There's an IsWow64Process() in the Windows
> >> > API to allow processes to detect the nature of the environment
> >> > they're running on, since sometimes that's something you need to
> >> > know. :)
> >>
> >> WOW64 relies on 32-bit libraries to do it's job though.  It's well
> >> known that 32-bit code cannot link against 64-bit libraries.  If
> >> building a 64-bit only version of Wine (since you cannot build any
> >> 32-bit code on non-multilib Gentoo), the question arises on how
> >> Wine is doing it.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Stupid question incoming:
> >
> > What's the WOW in WOW64?
> >
> > The more I read it as World of Warcraft the more I see that it
> > doesn't actually fit :-)
> 
> WOW64 is Windows On Windows 64-bit. It's how 32-bit Windows
> applications run on 64-bit Windows.
> 
> By and large, the way 32-bit and 64-bit applications and libraries can
> communicate with each other are very limited. 64-bit programs can't
> load 32-bit libraries, and vice versa. Some environment variables
> containing path information are switched out depending on if the
> program is 32-bit or 64-bit. Accesses to some registry paths are
> shunted to one place or another, depending on if the program is 32-bit
> or 64-bit.
> For system libraries, 64-bit windows provides both 32-bit and 64-bit
> versions of supported libraries, rather like multilib environments on
> Linux.
> 
> In essence, if you get 64-bit Windows, you're getting two copies of
> Windows, a 64-bit version and a 32-bit version, and the kernel shunts
> 32-bit programs into the 32-bit version while maintaining a reasonably
> high degree of interoperability; it's not a complete sandbox.
> 
> 32-bit and 64-bit processes can still communicate with each other.
> mmap()'d files still work the same way, as the filesystem paths don't
> change. Named objects such as pipes, events, mutexes...all of those
> are handled by the kernel, which has mapping code to allow 32-bit and
> 64-bit processes to independently gain handles on the same named
> objects. (Subject to security attributes and restrictions, of course.)
> 
> But, yeah. That's "Windows, on Windows 64-bit", or WOW64.

thanks, that makes sense

> 
> (P.S. For the Horde!)

:-)

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com